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Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

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Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

Postby ampersand on Wed May 23, 2012 7:14 pm

So as many of you know, I have been trying to study to take a test to become certified in ASP.NET 3.5. I haven't taken that test in a long while, and a funny thing happened while I've tried to study for it: Visual Studio 11 happened and HTML 5 happened. It's the new standard and it's the standard I'd now like to study and pass, maybe. If it's worth my time and trouble.

Here's the thing though: in the past, Microsoft had put in a version of Visual Studio known as Express, which was good for training because it cost you nothing to purchase. That Express version isn't going to be able in the new version except if I understood correctly if you want to practice creating apps for the Windows Phone. I know some people will use it, but the Windows Phone is like running 5th in a three-phone race between it, Droid and iPhone.

So if I wanted to learn how to use the new version of Visual Studio to work on C# and HTML 5, I would have to actually purchase it, and the bare bone basics will run about $500.

Or, I could use the Adobe Dreamweaver, learn how to use that, and pay the $30 to $50 a month (it's $30 now, next year it will be $50) forever and ever. And frankly, I like it better than I did using Visual Studio 2010 Express.

My time is going to be limited so I'm going to have decide whether to save up for the Visual Studio 2012 whenever it is released or learn how to use Adobe's Creative Suite stuff. So what do you folks think?
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Microsoft is killing the desktop. Like, literally. Which is sad, because it basically means that no one will ever upgrade from Windows 7. And PC gaming might actually die.

You could get the Visual Studio 11 Ultimate Beta, though, provided you have Windows 7. It's pretty much release ready.
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Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

Postby ampersand on Thu May 24, 2012 3:04 pm

The desktop is dying, but not from Microsoft. It's Apple that had killed the desktop and the PC with the the iPhone/iPad duo, as I heard from listening to Dell's conference call. The power and portability of even my iPhone is turning the laptop computer into the typewriter.
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ampersand wrote:The desktop is dying, but not from Microsoft.


I meant the actual desktop interface. You know, Start menu, icons, etc.

The power and portability of even my iPhone is turning the laptop computer into the typewriter.


Except for certain markets. Like gaming, for instance. Playing games on a touch screen is, for the most part, a veritable nightmare.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.


Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
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Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

Postby Deacon on Fri May 25, 2012 3:20 am

A computer is definitely a better platform than a phone for certain game styles, barring some sort of interface revolution. It's also the single most expensive game platform around and much more prone to shenanigans like the Diablo III DRM scheme. If you need and use a powerful desktop computer for other stuff and also happen to game on it, fine, but building it just for games doesn't make much sense unless that is pretty much all you do in your spare time, Night Elf Rogue #473720...
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collegestudent22 wrote:
ampersand wrote:The desktop is dying, but not from Microsoft.


I meant the actual desktop interface. You know, Start menu, icons, etc.

Windows 8 has a fully functional desktop, and that's not going to change. It's not even going to change in Windows 9. There are far too many applications built for it for them to scrap it anytime in the foreseeable future.
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Martin Blank wrote:Windows 8 has a fully functional desktop


Minus the Start menu. As far as I can tell, you are required to go into the Metro functionality with the tiles and everything for that.

It's not even going to change in Windows 9. There are far too many applications built for it for them to scrap it anytime in the foreseeable future.


Probably, but they will minimize its use if nothing causes a reverse course. They are trying to phase it out. I'm just not sure how well that will go over.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.


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Technically, the Start menu isn't part of the desktop. But the functionality of the Start menu is still there. The way most people use it in Windows Vista/7 is still there, too: tap the Windows key and start typing what you want to run. It works the same way in Windows 8.
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Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

Postby Deacon on Sun May 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Most people click the Start menu/logo.
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Re: Visual Studio 2012 versus Adobe CS 6

Postby BtEO on Mon May 28, 2012 12:14 am

Whenever I've shown someone win-key+type they've switched instantly. But it is missable if you're used to clicking the Start button and you're the type of person that just uses computers, only ever doing things the one way you've learned (or been shown) how — never looking for faster or better ways. I would agree that this is probably "most people".

Maybe removing the obvious Start button will force those people to learn, maybe it'll just frustrate them. The trouble is those people are also the least likely to look at preview builds — they'll only see Windows 8 if their new PC comes with it.

I'm wondering if declaring the desktop dead will become the new "PC games are dead."
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People who are forced to use something new learn to use it, even if they don't completely like it. Office 2007/2010 proved this. My dad was one of them. He has a head injury that's left him disabled and it's hard for him to remember things. After spending a long time in Office 2003 and earlier, he got to know where key functions were and didn't want to relearn them, especially not in a new UI. But after a few days in Office 2010, he liked it a lot more because he was able to get more use out of it because features were more visible.

Similarly, a lot of people didn't want to leave Windows 98 behind, but they got used to XP. The same thing happened with Windows 7, and when I've told people that they can't go to Windows XP because it can't be purchased, they eventually resign themselves to learning. I see the same thing in the Linux world with KDE 4 and Gnome 3 (though Unity is another story). It's new, they're not used to it, so it must be bad. People feel threatened when the corners of the world they think they control (like their computers) change. They get used to it after some time and life goes on.
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BtEO wrote:Whenever I've shown someone win-key+type they've switched instantly.


I'm less concerned about this changing as I am the fact that the new Start menu goes from an overlay in the corner to full screen annoyance. With stupid boxes for the applications.

Martin Blank wrote:People who are forced to use something new learn to use it, even if they don't completely like it.


True, but this doesn't really apply here. This revamp of the computer system is not remotely similar on its face (as the transition from XP to Win7 was, or Win98 to XP). It is a complete overhaul. And the problem isn't whether people will learn to use it, but whether it is even usable. As you pointed out with your dad, the transition to Office 2007/2010 was a useful one in the end. Win8, however, is not useful - unless you are on a tablet PC. They took Windows and forced it onto a smartphone - and then made it so that everyone is shoehorned into that format.

I predict a lot of this kind of thing. People will download a program (in the desktop) and then open a file that could be opened by that newly installed program. The stupid looking box will pop up in the corner telling them they have a new program for that file and to "tap here" - and everyone will be confused at this. Probably, some duller people will actually tap their non-touch monitor and then call Microsoft because "it doesn't work". Even in the desktop, the emphasis on touch is all over the place. (Also, why can't I boot into the desktop?)
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.


Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
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This is how inept I am at Windows: I had no idea until I started work that Windows key and L will lock your computer screen. I think I might have a problem without a visual start circle in Windows 8.

Hey, CS22, have you tried Visual Studio 2012 on Windows 8? Does it work alright?
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I have tried Visual Studio 11, and it works fine. I was not aware that 2012 was available... Is it?
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.


Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
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Visual Studio 2012 is the official name for "Visual Studio 11".
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