What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Talk about whatever you feel like.
Winterbay_
Crazy Person
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:14 pm

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Winterbay_ » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:03 pm

Norphus wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm
More IT admin rants:

Your computer does not care. It does not care if you shout at it. It does not care if you hit it. Your computer is an inanimate object and can not feel anything at all. Ranting and raving at it and hitting it because it's not doing what you want it to do is not going to miraculously make it generate the correct result. All you're going to do by being violent with it is break it.

IF you want it to generate the right result either A) Feed it the correct data or B) Do the process correctly. If you hit it, you will break it and oddly enough, I am not made of computers.

Bah.
You mean me angrier and angrier clicking on things that doesn't respond doesn't help? That makes me even more angry :D

Mav
Respect the Wang
Posts: 4106
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Sacramento

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Mav » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:03 pm

I work in web development and marketing. The two most important things that business owners tend to be clueless on are...

1. What their conversion funnel is. A conversion funnel is unique to each business, and in the broadest conceptual sense, it maps from when a potential client first becomes aware of your business (could be an ad, word of mouth, etc) and then all interactions with your business until they either do the thing you want (subscribe to your channel, buy a product, etc), or stop interacting with your business. Each interaction point should serve to drive the user/client closer to your conversion goal (circuitous routes are fine.) The points where they stop interacting with your business are referred to as holes in the funnel. This concept is fundamental to metric based marketing (ie not just bullshitting yourself.) (here's a conceptual graphic I created: https://www.logical-inc.com/wp-content/ ... ac49d6.png)

2. The importance of content strategy. You want a website? Cool. You want a blog? Cool. Email marketing? Sure. But who's writing it and how does it all come together? Want to do it externally? Awesome, what's your budget? Want to do it internally? Awesome, who's writing it and how talented are they? Do your ads line up with the content of the pages they're pointed to? Are you having me create a blog that will only contain five articles for all of eternity and eventually only serve to outline how you don't update your content? At the end of the day, if you build the coolest, prettiest website in existence and then fill it with shit, you've got a really nice shit-filled box that in 99.99999% probability accomplishes nothing (please refer back to conversion funnel.)
Arc_Orion wrote:<Arc_Orion> Mav is like a very interestingly informed six year old.

User avatar
Deacon
Shining Adonis
Posts: 44135
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Lakehills, TX

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Deacon » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:57 am

Mav wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:03 pm
(here's a conceptual graphic I created: https://www.logical-inc.com/wp-content/ ... ac49d6.png)
Heh, one giant hole? It’s a blank white image.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

Mav
Respect the Wang
Posts: 4106
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Sacramento

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Mav » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:31 pm

Deacon wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:57 am
Mav wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:03 pm
(here's a conceptual graphic I created: https://www.logical-inc.com/wp-content/ ... ac49d6.png)
Heh, one giant hole? It’s a blank white image.
White image intended for overlay on a dark background. Chrome should be decent enough to display that over a dark background for you (at least it did for me). Alternatively, you can just go to www.logical-inc.com and scroll down a bit. (I was trying to avoid shameless self promotion, but I'm also too lazy to open photoshop and upload it)
Arc_Orion wrote:<Arc_Orion> Mav is like a very interestingly informed six year old.

User avatar
Deacon
Shining Adonis
Posts: 44135
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Lakehills, TX

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Deacon » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:50 pm

Mav wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:31 pm
White image intended for overlay on a dark background. Chrome should be decent enough to display that over a dark background for you (at least it did for me). Alternatively, you can just go to www.logical-inc.com and scroll down a bit. (I was trying to avoid shameless self promotion, but I'm also too lazy to open photoshop and upload it)
Ah, Safari showed just what appeared to be a blank white image. Using Chrome, it shows a black background with the white illustration.

It's a pretty good illustration, I think. It doesn't quite translate to mobile, though:

Image
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

Mav
Respect the Wang
Posts: 4106
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Sacramento

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Mav » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:32 am

Thanks, but that's displaying as intended. I expect normal users to interpret the potential of a concept, rather than try to understand the concept itself. And from a sales perspective, it's more important that I demonstrate that I know what I'm talking about and establish credibility, rather than the user know what I'm talking about. (Education is not the primary goal of this content)

But it will link to an article explaining it in detail... eventually. (writers block, but it will be used as a reference tool with clients)
Arc_Orion wrote:<Arc_Orion> Mav is like a very interestingly informed six year old.

Mav
Respect the Wang
Posts: 4106
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Sacramento

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Mav » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:37 am

...also going to admit I'm too lazy to redesign the graphic in a way that could be fully displayed on a mobile screen. But also my primary demographic and in a decision making state would most likely be visiting from a laptop or desktop.
Arc_Orion wrote:<Arc_Orion> Mav is like a very interestingly informed six year old.

User avatar
Seannery
Crazy Person
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:49 pm
Real Name: Ellis Marie (for now, and only here)

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Seannery » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:25 am

Mav wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:32 am
Thanks, but that's displaying as intended. I expect normal users to interpret the potential of a concept, rather than try to understand the concept itself. And from a sales perspective, it's more important that I demonstrate that I know what I'm talking about and establish credibility, rather than the user know what I'm talking about. (Education is not the primary goal of this content)
It's good to see someone else understands that properly executed bullshit can be a net-positive force in our world. Sadly, there's so much pernicious bullshit out there, that gives, in some minds, a bad reputation to even legitimate bullshit, by association. I'm still skeptical about `practical' uses of bullshit, though. My ideas were more that bullshit can be interesting in a literary/aesthetic or other recreational/pure-intellectual way.
Do tell me, always, in what way I'm not good.. I'm not used to silent tolerance.
Why can't you just love her?

τ > π
Crazy Person
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:11 pm

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by τ > π » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:09 am

Seannery wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:25 am
Mav wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:32 am
Thanks, but that's displaying as intended. I expect normal users to interpret the potential of a concept, rather than try to understand the concept itself. And from a sales perspective, it's more important that I demonstrate that I know what I'm talking about and establish credibility, rather than the user know what I'm talking about. (Education is not the primary goal of this content)
It's good to see someone else understands that properly executed bullshit can be a net-positive force in our world. Sadly, there's so much pernicious bullshit out there, that gives, in some minds, a bad reputation to even legitimate bullshit, by association. I'm still skeptical about `practical' uses of bullshit, though.
I don't think that that graph is bullshit. The goal is emphasized. The direction towards the goal is emphasized. There is distance from the goal. There can be intermediate steps between whatever point and the goal. A person interacts with something, then might leave (funnel holes not shown) or interact with another thing. Most principles of the rigorous system are there. That graph is an example, that does not necessarily represent a real graph of customers' interactions.

Mav
Respect the Wang
Posts: 4106
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Sacramento

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Mav » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:14 am

Yeah, there's nothing intentionally false, misleading, or malicious there (per the dictionary term of bullshit.) But after 20+ years of watching peoples' eyes glaze over as I delve into detail and nuance, I've learned if you're talking to me, it's probably because you want to know that you can trust me and for me to do it for you, otherwise you wouldn't be looking at hiring a professional in the first place. And if you want to call that properly executed bullshit for a net positive, I won't argue.
Arc_Orion wrote:<Arc_Orion> Mav is like a very interestingly informed six year old.

User avatar
Seannery
Crazy Person
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:49 pm
Real Name: Ellis Marie (for now, and only here)

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Seannery » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:09 pm

Mav wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:14 am
Yeah, there's nothing intentionally false, misleading, or malicious there (per the dictionary term of bullshit.) But after 20+ years of watching peoples' eyes glaze over as I delve into detail and nuance, I've learned if you're talking to me, it's probably because you want to know that you can trust me and for me to do it for you, otherwise you wouldn't be looking at hiring a professional in the first place. And if you want to call that properly executed bullshit for a net positive, I won't argue.
My mind has bullshit as, mainly, the only ostensibly meaningful e.g. ambivalent statements otherwise conveying agreement with each audience, of either opinion. Your site for me never loaded, so my comment about good bullshit considered, mainly, your words about conceptual potential, credence over education---suggestive of bullshit. Seeing Deacon's screenshot of the graph, I agree with τ > π's assessment: not bullshit---despite buzzwordiness---but an example of an abstract maybe complex system. It might bullshit some, but if you're giving what they think they're getting, good.
Last edited by Seannery on Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Do tell me, always, in what way I'm not good.. I'm not used to silent tolerance.
Why can't you just love her?

nosystemd
Crazy Person
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:27 am

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by nosystemd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:32 pm

I've wondered for a while what would happen if some of the "advances" in psychology used to manipulate consumers were applied for the purpose of teaching instead.

I would hope for some ethical overlay / interface between the methodology and the application, and I'm certain this would be a continuing endeavour. I doubt that nobody's tried it yet.

But for example, I note that people shut down when you try to teach them things that other people have poorly taught; they react as though they're reliving trauma. If you can get people past that, they learn things more easily than they would otherwise.

User avatar
Deacon
Shining Adonis
Posts: 44135
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Lakehills, TX

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by Deacon » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:17 pm

Seannery wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:09 pm
My mind has bullshit mainly only ostensibly meaningful
I am unable to parse meaning from that jumble of words.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

User avatar
NorthernComfort
Crazy Person
Posts: 2761
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Real Name: Alex
Gender: Male
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by NorthernComfort » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:40 pm

My mind has bullshit as, mainly, the only ostensibly meaningful e.g. ambivalent statements otherwise conveying agreement with each audience, of either opinion.
Like Deacon, I am also stumped. Something about saying statements to please different audiences?

A general piece of advice: taking a word and saying that you personally define it to mean something other than the commonly accepted definition, is sometimes called Humpty-Dumptyism. To quote old Humpty, he said "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

It may have some artistic merit for poetry, or cynical post-modernist sophistry, but it isn't useful in regular conversation.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

τ > π
Crazy Person
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:11 pm

Re: What is something about your profession that people don't understand?

Post by τ > π » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:06 am

NorthernComfort wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:40 pm
Seannery wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Mav wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:14 am
Yeah, there's nothing intentionally false, misleading, or malicious there (per the dictionary term of bullshit.)
My mind has bullshit as, mainly, the only ostensibly meaningful
A general piece of advice: taking a word and saying that you personally define it to mean something other than the commonly accepted definition, is sometimes called Humpty-Dumptyism. To quote old Humpty, he said "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
Bullshit is not necessarily false, misleading, or malicious. A bullshitter doesn't care about the truth of his bullshit, therefore it is meaningless. If the bullshitee think's that a bullshit is meaningful, it seems meaningful. See the RationalWiki (2020-06-08) or Wikipedia (2020-09-28) Bullshit article (current revision). Is this what Seannery meant?
Last edited by τ > π on Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Common Crawl (Research) and 1 guest