Macs vs. PCs

ham toolie · Post by **ham toolie** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:54 am

I've been a Mac user all my life and have been submitted to using PCs occationally.

OSes:
My opinion on the matter of OSes is that the differences with the release of OS X and XP have decreased dramatically. They're both eyecandy right out of the box, they're both highly customizable, they both have powerful underpinnings. Having used a Mac for so long, I've gotten used to a number of features that just seem ridiculous not to have, the most major of which is the global menubar and the not having to deal with windows that can only be displayed inside of a parent window (AOL, Photoshop - wtf is up with that?). OS X has more standards-based support than XP (I might get a flamethrower up my ass for that comment, but my opinion is XP support for most standards is only weak and temporary until they decide to release their own proprietary product - DirectX, WMP format, MSOffice formats are not standards, they're proprietary... .Net is barely a standard and it's not the best solution). OpenGL, RTF, PDF, MP3, MPG... those are standards.

Hardware:
Apple hardware lacks the ability to strip down your purchase to the minimal possible so you can buy hard drives, ram, etc cheaper elsewhere. PC processors require twice or more the cooling to run their equipment (poor case design + processor bloat). Standard equipment on PCs is cheaper and less reliable (not referring to build-your-own computers). However, PCs do have full towers to hold more crap. Macs have a coherent, tight design process which can be seen in the new G5s which are just a marvel of modern machinery. PCs can't have that sort of care to detail placed in their hardware. Mac hardware is far better out of the box than PC hardware. Custom-built PCs are much closer.

Sipheren · Post by **Sipheren** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:30 am

I agree with you that brand PC's such as DELL are crap....but a self built PC is very reliable, fast and cheap....like I have said I use 3D Studio MAX and Photoshop 7 all the time and I have never had any problems.....but I haven’t had that much experience with MAC's, the only thing I have done on them is surf the net....Windows just seems the way to go, most people use it therefore it will have the most compatibility...

Having said all that, I have been considering giving a MAC a go, those new G5's sound very nice.....would anyone know if 3D Studio MAX and Photoshop are available for MAC? (That may be a silly question, but like I said I haven’t had much experience with MAC's)

Cheers

Sipheren

Saphid · Post by **Saphid** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:39 am

i'm pretty sure that the new photoshop is on there but i don't know about 3D studio max

Post by **Martin Blank** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:35 pm

[quote="Sipheren";p="133100"]I agree with you that brand PC's such as DELL are crap....but a self built PC is very reliable, fast and cheap.[/quote]
Dells are not crap. I should know. I've been using them in various environments, and across most of their lines including the Dimension, Optiplex, and Latitudes, for the last five years. I've deployed and supported hundreds of them.

Home-builts are also far more prone to difficulties related to electro-static discharge that happens during construction (you are building it in a temperature- and humidity-controlled environment, wearing at least a grounded wrist strap if not a full ESD smock and haircap, on a raised surface, with no carpet in the room, after walking across a grounded ESD mat, right?), and have no warranty and little outside support. They're also not carefully engineered for power use and heat dissipation by professionals, and once you throw in the cost of software to be installed, the prices are usually much closer.

For the enthusiast, a home-built may make sense, particularly if a specific parts combination is not available. For the general user, the support and reliability of a system like a Dell can be worth far more than a few dollars saved on some parts.

Saphid · Post by **Saphid** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:23 am

ok guys i've made the decision my PC is giving me the shits and it keeps breaking so i am going to sell it and buy an old mac ( if i'm good i maybe able to get a loan from dad cause its a "good investment in my future" but only maybe if i get good marks in my Trials and HSC) but what do the mac people think i should buy and what do you the PC people think i could get for an:
AMD 1600+
Asus A7S-333
512MB RAM
GeForce 2 MX 400 (64MB) (but it only registers at 32MB)
DVDROM samsung
CDR 48/24/48 lite on
80GB HDD (seagate barracuda)

ok thanks

Sipheren · Post by **Sipheren** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:25 am

yeah....I am speaking from an enthusiast point of view, I am sure if you just want to buy a computer that’s made for you then a DELL is great...but I would much rather build my own to the spec I want.....

jaxbrokenheart · Post by **jaxbrokenheart** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:27 am

[quote="Sipheren";p="133100"]
Having said all that, I have been considering giving a MAC a go, those new G5's sound very nice.....would anyone know if 3D Studio MAX and Photoshop are available for MAC? (That may be a silly question, but like I said I haven’t had much experience with MAC's)
[/quote]
most of adobe's apps are on the mac (most of them started on a mac). with the exception of premiere (final cut pro and avid are too much competition for them), atmosphere (they were making it for mac, last i heard), and photoshop album (iPhoto does exactly the same thing and it comes with macs).
are you talking about 3ds max from discreet? if so, i looked on their site and didn't see a mac version.

Sipheren · Post by **Sipheren** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:28 am

yeah, thats the one I mean.....If i was to get a MAC I would need 3DS MAX on it...

jaxbrokenheart · Post by **jaxbrokenheart** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:40 am

[quote="Saphid";p="133615"]but what do the mac people think i should buy[/quote]
i'd recommend something if i knew what you'll use it for and whether you want a desktop or laptop.

7on · Post by **7on** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:10 am

-Sipheren

Maya is what most Mac users use. Or Lightwave. (http://www.gamedb.com/ssps/0/0/00079)

You'd like a Mac. But get anything in the Power Line (not i/eMacs or 12" Powerbooks because they lack the power for 3D apps) and it should work. If you are a student (and not doing 3DS MAX for a living) then you might want to give Maya, Renderman, or Bryce a chance. Your current Windows programs won't be compatible, so you'll have to repurchase Mac equivilents (the only software I had to rebuy was Office and Photoshop). IMO, macs are more compatible than PCs. Most drivers are preinstalled, as in if you have a BT mouse all you'd have to do is turn on BT and let it search for the mouse and it'll work (if it has internal BT). With my plethera of devices, only my Printer/scanner needed to be installed (hp). Networks work without hardly any settings (some encrypted ones need to be set up). I just jumped into the mac. No reseach or anything. I just knew that they were good for graphics so I got it. People just the Mac because they think it's to "simple". However, if you're on a deadline doing something, simplity pays off. (i.e. I don't want to spend my time finding out why Illustrator won't open when a project is due the next day) I had 0 experience with a Mac and within a week I was able to parition the disk to OS9 and OSX, burn a DVD, move mp3's to iTunes, connect to the net via 56k, and learn some terminal commands. Sure the Mac is simple, but that way you can enjoy the apps you use instead of worrying about sercurity holes, crashes, or not having the correct .dll.

Laptop: 15" PowerBook (if you don't mind 17" in yo face)

Desktop: MDD PowerMac G4 (if you can spend anything, go with a 2.0GHz G5 duley)

Get a 2 button mouse too, because some games require one.

Sipheren · Post by **Sipheren** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:43 am

thx....I priced a nice G4 system at around 5K, it looks nice and I think I may consider it for my uni computer as I am going to be studying 3d graphics......

Saphid · Post by **Saphid** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:04 am

ok i'll only have the money from the sellage of the PC and maybe a bit extra i earn like maybe an exta hunred so still not much at all

also i have been around and have used and fixed mac my whole life my dads a tech who has mcp for nt4 and is going for his xp sometime this year he also has his apple se and ce certifcation but his not in the mood to talk about it during my trials and i want other peoples opion to so with what i could get for that pc and maybe a tiny bit more what and where (in australia could i get a mac )

* note i would like a laptop if its specs are good enough which i don't think anything in my price range wont even a tower

7on · Post by **7on** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:56 am

For getting a mac I'm sure http://www.apple.com has them

For selling your PC I wouldn't know. You could perhaps sell it for 1500-1700 USD (2300-2600 AUD). Currently Mac Laptops are fully desktop replacements. It is speculated that Apple will update their laptops this month, so if you can hold off and wait till then that would be peachy. Because then the current laptop prices should plumet. Since you won't be doing video, I wouldn't reccomend a Superdrive (DVD-R burner). Get 512MB of ram, then buy another 512MB to max out (Apple RAM is e x t r e m e l y expensive for what you can get at cruical.com or whatever). Go 40GB and buy an external FW drive (internal laptop drives are slow [4200 rpm] and because Apple laptops are 1" thin, faster drives can't be put in there because of heat. Any rendering should be done on an external 7200RPM or more). Get the 15" Tibook because the 12" is too slow and the 17" is too pricey (not to mention big). I have a 15" TiBook (called so because it's housed in Titanium) 1GHz maxed out. You could go for the 867MHz, but 1GHz is a nice round number.

When updated models come out, the old ones should be cheap (ebay or maybe Apple will still sell them outright like the G4 Powermac). So here's a rundown.

15.2" PowerBook
1GHz (if this is too pricey, the 867MHz isn't that much slower)
40GB HD
Airport (Wireless is soooooo cool

)
Combo Drive (Superdrive isn't worth it unless you want to use iDVD *free* with superdrive models

Right now the 1GHz with these specs is $2500USD (3844AUD)
and the 867MHz (vid card is 32MB instead of 64MB) is $2278USD (3503AUD)
Both should go down when the new ones come out.

It may be expensive, but a cheap laptop that can do 3D modeling would be a tough cookie to come by. If there is a demo for Lightwave/Maya/something that I could test, I'd be happy to give a report of it on my PowerBook. Though is assume it'd be a hefty download (56k) and I'll be in college on the Sunday, so I will have access to that wonderful 6,000 dollar a semester ethernet...

EDIT: I've read that you priced a nice G4 tower system around 5K, if that is Austrailan (3251USD) then you could get a low G5 around the same price.

Look: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... .7.1.0.5.3

A dual 2.0 GHz G5 for $2770USD (4260AUD). Of course there's a monitor, 17" for 600USD (922AUD) if you can't use your own. Don't get a G4 unless you need OS9 and you won't. (or unless you want a powerbook)

jaxbrokenheart · Post by **jaxbrokenheart** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:13 am

[quote="Schiffi";p="133766"]
1GHz (if this is too pricey, the 867MHz isn't that much slower)

It may be expensive, but a cheap laptop that can do 3D modeling would be a tough cookie to come by.[/quote]
the new ones should (since we are both going by the rumor sites) be a little more noticably faster than just minor clock speed. the new tibook will (most likely) use the ppc7457 instead of the 7455 (which they use now) which has more L3 cache and a faster bus (unless apple doesn't make the bus speed faster because of heat). also, i'd expect the next tibook to have DDR RAM since the 12" powerbook does. but, this doesn't mean the older models are a bad choice though. make sure to check for educational/government discounts if either of those apply to you!!!

also, saphid never told us what he was going to use this for, so he may not need a mac for 3d modelling. (my 600mhz iBook works well for me even in photoshop/illustrator but video/3d rendering kills it)

Sipheren · Post by **Sipheren** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:26 am

• 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• 512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256
• 160GB Serial ATA
• Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
• ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
• 56K V.92 internal modem
• Apple Keyboard + Apple Mouse

Subtotal A$ 4,785.00

This would be good.....can you use memory from another retailer in a MAC, because I need 1GB worth and its extremely expensive for there RAM...

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