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Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:44 pm

BBQ you complete and utter ass. When arriving at a conclusion on something it is only rational to accept as true that which seems most likely to be true... right? (if you disagree here then stop reading because you're too stupid to understand what I'm talking about). So, you never do a 'process of elimination' thing simply because no completely solid proof has been found one way or the other.

You're... what, an Atheist? No proof has been found that there is no god, right? So, by process of elimination there must be a god! Are you a Theist? Ok, no proof has been found that there is a god, right? So, by process of elmination there must be no god! Are you seeing the flaw with this logic or is your skull too thick?

So, back to the gay thing. No conclusive proof has been found to tell us exactly what causes homosexuality. However, there is some highly suggestive evidence that it's hormonal. This is corroborated by the claims of the vast majority of homosexuals and bisexuals that it's something they can't help, they can't change. It's corroborated by the dismal failure of every single program that attempted to make gay people straight. Every one.

No, it's not absolute evidence, but then... do you have absolute evidence for the idea that it's choice? No. So why is it necessary to have absolute evidence in order to believe that it's hormonal but it's perfectly fine to believe that it's choice without any evidence at all? The most likely situation is that it's hormonal; the vast majority of all evidence and studies in this regard suggest that it's exactly that. No evidence I've ever read has suggested that it's a choice. How could you possibly look yourself in the mirror and think you're a rational, thinking human being while at the same time believing something with no evidence when there is a far more likely situation which is supported by mounds of evidence? Do you have no self respect or integrity at all whatsoever? :boggles:

I mean, I know that it makes you feel good about yourself to hate those damn faggots. You feel superiour because you're not a faggot. Or maybe you are a faggot and are just compensating or reacting to your own desires which disgust you. Are you a faggot or do you just feel good about yourself for hating them?

Regardless, it seems very clear that your reasons for believing that homosexuality is a choice have nothing to do with logic or rationality or what you think is most likely to be true, and everything to do with the fact that if it's not a choice, if it's something they can't help, then you lose your biggest reason for hating them, and where would you be without your homophobia?

Why, you might actually be a slightly rational, intelligent human being (however unlikely). And we damn well wouldn't want that. Because what the world needs is just a little more pathetic ignorance and masturbatory hatred.

-- Chris

TDINTBL · Post by **TDINTBL** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:52 pm

Damn, what the hell are you on. I offer simple opinion and you want to flame? Seems to me you are the one consumed in hatred. Now, if you want definite proof of anything, I dare you, PROVE I exist. PROVE the world actually exists, prove anyone you meet is not just a deranged fragment of you imagination. PROVE the world round. PROVE your memories. About the only man has been able to actually PROVE conclusively is "I THINK THEREFORE I AM," and I can't even prove that was ever said.

You want proof, I dare you to find it!

Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:07 pm

Erm. I was 'flaming' BBQ (BBB Zero), not you TDINTBL. In fact, I didn't even notice your post until just now. You 'ninjaed' me, so to speak. Calm down. It's BBQ who gratifies himself through his homophobia; I expect you're not even homophobic at all. You probably just know a few homosexuals who wrongly believe that they have a choice in their sexuality (or maybe they're bisexual in which case they do have something of a choice).

Now, ah, I'm not sure if the rest of your post about proof is being satirical of me or what, given that I've recently been ranting in another thread about the fact that it's utterly impossible to know anything to an absolute certainty. However, it's certainly completely inapplicable to my own post given that I specifically said that absolute proof is not necessary for belief; the majority of the evidence and rationale is on the side that homosexuality is mostly hormonal, so it's only rational to believe that unless you have good reason to believe otherwise. Anecdotal testamony from a few homosexual friends is not good enough reason to believe otherwise, by the way.

So, ah, calm down, maybe read the rest of this thread so you'll understand why I'm so hostile toward BBQ, and consider taking a ten second time-out before replying so that you don't come across as a hyperventilating paranoid schitzophrenic once again.

-- Chris

TDINTBL · Post by **TDINTBL** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:13 pm

Okay, my apologies. I came back to your thread noticing yours after mine going on a lambast. I'm already edgy in this thread, noticing that everyone seems to be in flat out vendetta mode. No I wasn't being satirical there. It may not look it from the size of my posts and how much I have an opinion on everything, but I am a noob at this forum, less than 24 hours. The prove anything was something that I thought of while mowing lawns one day, I am a philosophical person. It occurs to me that nothing in fact can be proved, doubting that no would believe me either. I had no clue there was even one person out there with a similar thought. Again, I apoligize for the counterflame, I thought I was the one under assualt, and as my friends can testify, when I am attacked, I spaz out and start attacking back.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:31 am

I still find it ironic when people preach tolerance with hammer in hand, threatening to attack anyone who doesn't conform.

TDINTBL · Post by **TDINTBL** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:07 am

Agreed, I never have understood that theory. I listen through actions, usually I don't hear a word you say unless you behave in the same manner you talk... I know I'm as guilty as the next person about lashing out though...

Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:42 am

[quote="Deacon";p="370594"]I still find it ironic when people preach tolerance with hammer in hand, threatening to attack anyone who doesn't conform.[/quote]
We've already had this discussion... in this very thread, I think (maybe not). I pointed out that there is a definite conflict between tolerance and opinions. It's hard to preach tolerance and then ignore intolerance, nor would it be especially consistent. Just as it's inconsistent to preach tolerance and then be intolerant toward intolerance. Either way you're behaving somewhat inconsistently in one way or another. So I maintain that tolerance toward intolerance is not necessary in order to be generally tolerant. Understand?

Seraphim · Post by **Seraphim** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:30 am

Does that mean if you're tolerant of all races, you should be tolerant of hate crimes? It's not inconsistant at all. Just because you want to be tolerant doesn't mean you have to stand for attrocities. Bigotry, is one step below a hate crime... or trying to ammend the constitution to oppress a good chunk of the country.

*BBB* ZERO · Post by *BBB* ZERO » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:16 pm

BBQ you complete and utter ass.

I love it!

You're... what, an Atheist?

Never

No proof has been found that there is no god, right? So, by process of elimination there must be a god!

You and I both know that that situation is a different story. Genetics, the human body, and how we think as a species are all questions experts and scientists have asked eachother. Now the human race has brain surgery down to a science. If homosexuality was genetic or an imbalance of hormones, I believe the cause would have been found or at least been proven by now.

No conclusive proof has been found to tell us exactly what causes homosexuality. However, there is some highly suggestive evidence that it's hormonal. This is corroborated by the claims of the vast majority of homosexuals and bisexuals that it's something they can't help, they can't change. It's corroborated by the dismal failure of every single program that attempted to make gay people straight. Every one.

You use words like 'conclusive' and 'exactly' to try and aid your arguement. You are doing a terrible job however I might ad. Let's take those two words out of your statment and see how it sounds. "No ___ proof has been found to tell us ___ what causes homosexuality. That is a huge difference. That is a true statement. There have also been studies that results have shown straight men with the same hormonal imbalance as a gay man. How is the cause possibly hormones then?

No, it's not absolute evidence,

It's not evidence at all.

I mean, I know that it makes you feel good about yourself to hate those damn faggots.

Is that what you meant this whole time?

You feel superiour because you're not a faggot. Or maybe you are a faggot and are just compensating or reacting to your own desires which disgust you. Are you a faggot or do you just feel good about yourself for hating them?

Why does everyone have to get so personal?!?

and everything to do with the fact that if it's not a choice, if it's something they can't help,

This is my point, there are not any facts about this situation. The only fact that still holds up is the fact that there is no evidence for the cause of homosexuality to be hormonal or genetic. That is a fact. In fact, that is the only fact that doesn't 'fact' up this whole arguement. HAHHAHA I also see how you talk about facts, and then the next part of that sentence you start it off with "IF." How many times do I have to say it, if doesn't hold up here. Fact to IF..............great arguement.

Why, you might actually be a slightly rational, intelligent human being (however unlikely). And we damn well wouldn't want that. Because what the world needs is just a little more pathetic ignorance and masturbatory hatred.

You are so fucking anal!!!

NorthernComfort · Post by **NorthernComfort** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:21 pm

BBB, how kind of you to bless us with your delightful presence once again.

So after that long and useless post rebutting in various ways his argument, I have to ask... are you even trying to make an argument anymore? Or do you just like to sit back and poke holes?

Blind Pyr0 · Post by **Blind Pyr0** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:13 pm

[quote="Azurain";p="370526"]BBQ you complete and utter ass. When arriving at a conclusion on something it is only rational to accept as true that which seems most likely to be true... right? (if you disagree here then stop reading because you're too stupid to understand what I'm talking about). So, you never do a 'process of elimination' thing simply because no completely solid proof has been found one way or the other.

You're... what, an Atheist? No proof has been found that there is no god, right? So, by process of elimination there must be a god! Are you a Theist? Ok, no proof has been found that there is a god, right? So, by process of elmination there must be no god! Are you seeing the flaw with this logic or is your skull too thick?

So, back to the gay thing. No conclusive proof has been found to tell us exactly what causes homosexuality. However, there is some highly suggestive evidence that it's hormonal. This is corroborated by the claims of the vast majority of homosexuals and bisexuals that it's something they can't help, they can't change. It's corroborated by the dismal failure of every single program that attempted to make gay people straight. Every one.

No, it's not absolute evidence, but then... do you have absolute evidence for the idea that it's choice? No. So why is it necessary to have absolute evidence in order to believe that it's hormonal but it's perfectly fine to believe that it's choice without any evidence at all? The most likely situation is that it's hormonal; the vast majority of all evidence and studies in this regard suggest that it's exactly that. No evidence I've ever read has suggested that it's a choice. How could you possibly look yourself in the mirror and think you're a rational, thinking human being while at the same time believing something with no evidence when there is a far more likely situation which is supported by mounds of evidence? Do you have no self respect or integrity at all whatsoever? :boggles:

I mean, I know that it makes you feel good about yourself to hate those damn faggots. You feel superiour because you're not a faggot. Or maybe you are a faggot and are just compensating or reacting to your own desires which disgust you. Are you a faggot or do you just feel good about yourself for hating them?

Regardless, it seems very clear that your reasons for believing that homosexuality is a choice have nothing to do with logic or rationality or what you think is most likely to be true, and everything to do with the fact that if it's not a choice, if it's something they can't help, then you lose your biggest reason for hating them, and where would you be without your homophobia?

Why, you might actually be a slightly rational, intelligent human being (however unlikely). And we damn well wouldn't want that. Because what the world needs is just a little more pathetic ignorance and masturbatory hatred.

-- Chris[/quote]

*High fives Azurain*

Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:09 pm

[quote="NorthernComfort";p="374692"]BBB, how kind of you to bless us with your delightful presence once again.

So after that long and useless post rebutting in various ways his argument, I have to ask... are you even trying to make an argument anymore? Or do you just like to sit back and poke holes?[/quote]

I see no holes, personally. He still hasn't addressed the fact that there is strong (read: conclusive) evidence that homosexuality, whatever it is, is not choice, through the fact that every single 'turn-straight' program has failed dismally. He neglected to defend his behavior in demanding absolute, concrete evidence for one side of the argument but requiring none for his side even though there is evidence in direct opposition to his claim, and none to be found in support of it. He's still too dense to comprehend any of the value of hypothetical situations and thinks it's somehow intellectually acceptable to disregard any statement at all that has an indecisive modifier within it...

He's trying to poke holes, yes, but poking holes in solid granite with your bare hands doesn't work very well... : )

He isn't all that bad to have around, however... It's always nice to have someone around to remind you how intelligent and dignified and integrous you are through comparisson... Hell, he makes Mew Guy look good. I think what you usually call that is the 'village idiot.'

[quote="Blind Pyr0";p="374807"]*High fives Azurain*[/quote]
*bows with a flourish*

-- Chris

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:48 pm

[quote="Azurain";p="374828"]He still hasn't addressed the fact that there is strong (read: conclusive) evidence that homosexuality, whatever it is, is not choice, through the fact that every single 'turn-straight' program has failed dismally.[/quote]
Y'all can have your little poo-flinging fights to yourselves, but I would like to point out that the failure of a "turn-straight" program is in no way conclusive evidence that homosexuality is not a choice, much less that it is a physiological abnormality of any kind.

Rfairney · Post by **Rfairney** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:06 pm

The human genome is a complex thing
It is still to be determined exactly what it all does, otherwise we would have some genetically engineered humans being born, with perfect attributes, we do not

They are finding out what things do all the time, in animals and humans

NorthernComfort · Post by **NorthernComfort** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:45 am

I'm amazed that this thread has gone on for 15 pages, really. It's like trying to determine why somebody like BBB is an idiot, or why some people are just so damn good-hearted. Why worry? It's part of them.

And how about we hold a vote to give BBB the special title 'Village Idiot'.

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