Yes lets retire couter strike to the old games home

[Mr.Shroom]

Greg, my point wasn't that you have NO comics about other games. I wouldn't be that asinine. My point is you've shown greater coverage and love for RPG games. You envelop your characters in your comics in RPG settings frequently, while I've seen few other full-game emmersions aside from said Planetside comics, the old 'Tron'\'2001' mockeries and the Mechwarrior incidents. But lets not play the statistics game. For every good example I could find against, you would no doubt have equal (and probably greater) likelyhood of finding instances for.

On an related topic:

You seem to imply that I know nothing about that which I speak, haven't done my research, and just made a comic about counter-strike because it's what people play, and dammit, i loves me some pissin' people off...Like I'm some pawn for your amusement, and you think I'm idiotic, but you LOVE seeing the idiot screw up again and again...You consistently come off as a holier-than-thou asshole, which i'm sure you have no problem with. But it's real tough to argue a point with someone that comes off like that.

I won't deny that I'm at times likely to pontificate, and mockery and I roomed together at college. Be they character traits or flaws, thats an issue for another thread. But the point is: You make a webcomic. Its a product. And you, Greg, are its creator. Every time you put pen to paper, and paper to scanner, you're putting the sum total of an idea up on the web. And ideas often get responses.

Your comic seemed to attack its merits. You obviously didn't intend it to...but you HAVE to accept the possibility of some assuming it as such, even with your amusing post-script at the bottom. Frankly, I don't think its CS that causes this plauge you refer to, though I'll agree it exists. Its more of a sociological issue of having near anomnity that does so. But thats a topic for another thread. I might make one along those lines if you're interested in the 'Rants' section later.

I'm not an agressive or competitive arguer, Greg. You obviously view a 'debate' as a 'winner' and a 'loser'...and are of the opinion I view you as the latter. Thats hardly the issue. If I taunt you, its going to be at least highbrow and mildly offensive, but be founded in a challenge or response to an idea of yours I question. Not a personal attack.

...Good lord, the fact that you'd even think I'd bother to insult you personally (on the INTERNET, no less...a contradiction in terms) is either flattering or mildly disturbing towards the fact of how much emphasis my duitible personality has around here.

Gods. Thats going to creep me out later.

Bygones. My true response to your self-defined ACTUAL issue? You're just not the best person to do a review of CS in my opinion. Even in the face of these claims, the...idea of RPG just bobbles around your head, Greg. Your name doesn't jump to the top of my list if I needed someones opinion on a realistic terrorist\counter-terrorist Tom Clancey-ish modification and\or game, much less LAN parties in general. That doesn't mean you DON'T have a valid opinion on them. It just meanst I, as a singular being, don't regard you as such.

Your webcomic wasn't a good enough arguement for the idea. (Though it was a good comic!) I posted as much.

Did I make an attempt to get your attention? No shit.
Did I get it? Yes. Did you FINALLY post a detailed and insightfull viewpoint on this topic?

/me points to your above post.

Yes, surprisingly so. And quite detailed. You believe one of the key points of a LAN party are its variety. I believe on of the key points of a LAN is its openess, its ability for all levels of machines to enjoy and co-exist with little to no burps along the way.

You believe LAN parties should be fun. No arguement there. Its how that is ACHIEVED that I challenged. And doubt we'll agree on. Not to mention the concept that you are percieved as more of an RPG-addicted person on the web\forums, but thats a harder issue to tackle.

Glad to see you still read the forums, Greg.

[Zaph]

I played religiously 2-3 hours a day

That is not religiously. I know people who will spend entire days playing CS. Now I will play between 1-3 hours a day because I happen to be in a clan, but I think that they should not be pissing their lives away, like that. Also, I have found that for the most part people tend to stick with one HL mod or another with very little intermingling. I, on the other hand, play DoD, CS, Digi Painball, and the Professionals. I think it is fun to have a little variety. I will also spend days where I play nothing but FarCry, or play some Diablo 2 and Halo, or really any combo of games. It just really depends on how shitty my day was and if I want to relax with one game or many.

-Zaph

[Mr.Shroom]

Thats an issue of semantics, Zaph. And as Greg mentioned, his point wasn't the merit of the game (though one could see why you thought as much), it was the replay value, the actual enjoyment of the game, and the potential effect on peoples attitudes.

Varititey is fun...but you can run into problems. If its a BYOC LAN, you often run into situations where some players are blatantly overpowered, system-wise. Alot of LANs I've run into quickly turn into plebian and VIP sectioned areas, where high-end dream machines gather together and blatantly beat and mock lesser, underpowered machines. Or some people simply glumly watch other play the more graphics intensive games, their own systems unable to keep up with the high-yeild frame-rates. Cost is STILL a factor for many people.

[TreeSurgeon1]

[quote="Greg Dean";p="341898"]The idea you have in your mind is the same stereotype people seem to have slapped on me, if the guest comics are any indication.
[/quote]

If the shoe fits...

Honestly, that is the impression you give. We all remember how much you used to play UO. And there was a period of time where all you played, talked about, and posted about was FFXI. You had the worldpass thing going, and the linkshell, and all the other stuff. You even skipped a comic one day cause you were too busy playing it. You haven't shown us that same level of fervor for any other games that I recall, and I have read all 1200 comics. Multiple times.

In fact, I remember the storyline where Dave tried to help you get better at Quake. Whether that actually happened in reality or not, it just reinforces the point.

There's nothing wrong with being an RPG fan. But you do drink a lot of Pepsi, and you do play a lot of RPGs. Wasn't one of the reasons you wanted to learn Japanese (according to the comic anyway) because you could import FFXI? You show us buying the soundtracks, and the action figures.

Don't forget, a lot of us who come here read the comic and move on. We rarely read the forums, we don't comment on much, and we certainly don't know you in real life (in other words, we've never spent time with you). So, the comic is the only perspective of who you really are that some of us ever get. Maybe you're completely different than the comic you - maybe you're really a huge fan of ABBA and you drink nothing but A&W root beer. But lots of us only know what we see in the comic.

That's all I'm saying.

[Mae Dean]

And that's the Shroom I remember. Sorry for getting my panties in such a bunch. I'm a little oversensetive sometimes, and you know that.

You have to understand, Shroom... your opinion carries a lot of weight around here, especially to me. I consider you to be very well educated, and your ability to rationally discuss something is astounding. So when I perhaps feel that you might be insulting me (though I get it a lot), I get pretty defensive. When it comes down to a battle of wits, you'd probably best me. And that drives me nuts.

I really try not to give the impression that I do nothing but drink Pepsi and play Final Fantasy. But because back when I started the comic, I tended to be more obsessive (I was only 18, and just beginning to develop my sense of identity) my comic alter-ego developed this insane addiction to a few things. I thought it helped drive the "crazy" aspect of what I was trying to make his personality. As those of you who've met me know, my character and I are two seperate creatures. Just because I make him obsessive about pepsi and ff doesn't mean I am myself so obsessed. I go through stints where I won't play XI because it bores me, I'll drink anything I can get my hands on, I quit UO outright, and will never go back. So while comic-Greg may come off as an RPG addicted freak, I can assure you I am nothing of the sort.

And as for my anger against CS, at BYOC lan parties, I really can't bitch. One of the people who had their computer at the lan party on friday had only a 4-gig hard drive, so most of the better games are unavailable. But when you're at a LAN-center, as I like to be, computer accessibility isn't an issue. Those rigs can generally run anything they throw at it. We've been able to get some Jedi Knight II deathmatches going every now and then, but for the most part, people only play CounterStrike and B1942. It's disheartening, when there are 20 or 30 games installed on these things. I just got an e-mail from a guy who was running a LAN party, and had 7 people cancel their spots because they heard there wasn't going to be counterstrike. I mean, come on. This is why I prefer LAN parties amongst friends to those of just anybody. My FPS skills are fairly well up there, but I want a game with ACTION. Balls-to-the wall, blood and guts flying, action. CS just doesn't cut it for me in that respect.

And 2-3 hours is religious for someone who works 9 hours a day, lives with his girlfriend, and has a life. 2-3 hours on a weekday is oodles of gaming time. If you're playing games nonstop all day long, it's time for an intervention.

Anyway, that's my point of view, take it or leave it. It's just an opinion, so I'll leave it be at that.

[Seir]

Maybe the solution is to make a club or sorts that would meet at your favorite LAN center where you would promise to play FPS' other than CS? There might be other people who share your feelings and maybe the only problem is co-ordinating a time?

[Mr.Shroom]

[quote="Greg Dean";p="342017"]You have to understand, Shroom... your opinion carries a lot of weight around here, especially to me.[/quote]

...That frightens the SHIT out of me, frankly. I think I'll go camping for a few weeks, sans internet. :p

And heaven forbid I ever have to stop enjoying someone getting pissed at me. Though the womenfolk do tend to find just the right part of my head to smack.

Anyway, perhaps take this as a sign that perhaps you need to do more 'breakin' outta the mold' type comics. TreeSurgeon1 summed it up better than I could. Redefining moments is the issue. The little storyline with the evil lair and such help shape character traits. Or just more indulgence of other game worlds\personal delusions.


As for Lan-CENTERS? Don't you find that the mood at BYOC lan parties and lan centers THEMSELVES seem different? I know I do, and perhaps in that respect the games themselves also seem to contribute to the 'problem'. Folks who go to LAN centers tend to stick to the 'staple' games. CS and B1942 have become those multi-player staple games. Seir probably has the right idea with that. Its not just the games, its where you are.

[Shauk]

[quote="BillyBlaze";p="341714"]Slow down shauk, you almost tripped me up in that tangled web of words. Let me get this straight.

1. Sucks

2. Sucks

3. Sucks

Damnit you're good. You should be writing reviews for Gamespot with detailed and clever discriptions like that.[/quote]


ok, but only if you are my editor ;p

(yes i'm good with sarcasm, as are you apparently)

[Mae Dean]

I'd tend to agree with you on that, unfortunately. Oddly enough, though... this latest lan party i was at more or less had the feel of the ones at the LAN center, except I knew that to get any other games started, it was going to take the time to install the games. Seriously... everyone was real quiet, and just sat and their computer playing counterstrike. It was odd, since there were only about 10 people there, all told. More LAN, less party.

[bort]

ok... back on topic.

CS will never really die. It will retire with high honors when CS2 comes out, but will still live in the memory of many a gamer. so, people who hate(or just dislike, you wusses ) CS and its fanbase will just have to learn to deal.

btw, is it me, or does the smiley look retarded?

[Mae Dean]

It looks pleased with itself.

[billf]

[quote="bort";p="342055"]btw, is it me, or does the smiley look retarded? [/quote]

See, typical CS fan, absolutely no taste at all.

[WCH]

Problems with CS:
1) You die too damned easy. This makes the pros untouchable and screws over the newbs. At least in Team Fortress or the like a pro will take some damage when fighting a new player, not just kill him in one shot.
2) You have to wait too damned long before you can keep playing after you die. This is very annoying if you are one of those newbs described above, because it means that you die before even having a chance to shoot and that's it for the match. I've had games in Team Fortress where I died over 80 times and still came out in the positive for points (I was Scout running for the flag on a small, brutal map); you can't get that kind of excitement in CS.
3) The majority of people who play it either cheat or claim that everyone else cheats. In Team Fortress, Halo, Death Match Classic, Goldeneye or any of the other dozen games I've played with friends and strangers alike, when someone dies we laugh about it. In CS when someone dies they get extremely pissed off, and the person who killed them usually insults them repeatedly, just to be a cunt.

Aside from those three things it's a pretty decent game. The realism of the weapons and tactics involved as well as the suspence of it all makes for a solid game, provided all the players are in good moods, know that none of the others are cheaters and are around the same skill level -- that, of course, never happens.

[Seir]

WHC:

1) It's called learning how to stay alive without stalling.

2) It's called thinking over why the hell your ass died. And I've gotten that kind of excitment in scrims and matches where it came down to last man standing.

3) The cheating problem is an overexaggeration, and it's not like other FPS' have not had issues with cheaters. You're just purporting an overexaggeration.

[SothThe69th]

[quote="WCH";p="342093"]Problems with CS:
1) You die too damned easy. This makes the pros untouchable and screws over the newbs. At least in Team Fortress or the like a pro will take some damage when fighting a new player, not just kill him in one shot.[/quote]

It's called body armor. It doesn't cost much. Try it sometime.

2) You have to wait too damned long before you can keep playing after you die. This is very annoying if you are one of those newbs described above, because it means that you die before even having a chance to shoot and that's it for the match.

That depends on the map you're running and the "puss" factor of the other players involved. 2 Snipers makes for a long match, but a straight run and gun in Speedball is over in under 2 minutes.

3) The majority of people who play it either cheat or claim that everyone else cheats. In Team Fortress, Halo, Death Match Classic, Goldeneye or any of the other dozen games I've played with friends and strangers alike, when someone dies we laugh about it. In CS when someone dies they get extremely pissed off, and the person who killed them usually insults them repeatedly, just to be a cunt.

It's the CS rule- If you died, obviously someone is cheating. I usually make fun of that kind of crap at the beginning of the match, and laugh at people who make claims. Seriously, hacks are obvious. Super obvious. Just because a guy kills you with an AWP (OMG!!!111) doesn't mean he's a hacker. It just means you have no appreciable skill at CS.

Aside from those three things it's a pretty decent game. The realism of the weapons and tactics involved as well as the suspence of it all makes for a solid game, provided all the players are in good moods, know that none of the others are cheaters and are around the same skill level -- that, of course, never happens.

Wait... You complain about dying too easily, and then say you like it's realism. Umm... did I MISS something here? Seriously. You can't have your cake and eat it too bud. Or something like that. Whatever.