Yes lets retire couter strike to the old games home

[curious-george]

[quote="WCH";p="342093"]Problems with CS:
1) You die too damned easy. This makes the pros untouchable and screws over the newbs. At least in Team Fortress or the like a pro will take some damage when fighting a new player, not just kill him in one shot.
2) You have to wait too damned long before you can keep playing after you die. This is very annoying if you are one of those newbs described above, because it means that you die before even having a chance to shoot and that's it for the match. I've had games in Team Fortress where I died over 80 times and still came out in the positive for points (I was Scout running for the flag on a small, brutal map); you can't get that kind of excitement in CS.
3) The majority of people who play it either cheat or claim that everyone else cheats. In Team Fortress, Halo, Death Match Classic, Goldeneye or any of the other dozen games I've played with friends and strangers alike, when someone dies we laugh about it. In CS when someone dies they get extremely pissed off, and the person who killed them usually insults them repeatedly, just to be a cunt.

Aside from those three things it's a pretty decent game. The realism of the weapons and tactics involved as well as the suspence of it all makes for a solid game, provided all the players are in good moods, know that none of the others are cheaters and are around the same skill level -- that, of course, never happens.[/quote]


I feel the exact same way. Being a Half-Life junkie. I love TFC, almost and if not more than Counter-Strike. I love the environment when you play tfc, no hackers, fun times, and its so unrealistic its not even funny. For added fun i go into console, and type "cl_gibcount 10000000" And when i kill someone, bodyparts just fly all over the place. Ill tell you what greg(or anybody for that matter), if you want some hardcore oldschool, blocky badassness, play some good ol' tfc. Also i like to play the specialists, which is a "action movie" influenced game. A lot more like the matrix, but still very good mod."

[WCH]

[quote="SothThe69th";p="342107"]
It's called body armor. It doesn't cost much. Try it sometime.

That depends on the map you're running and the "puss" factor of the other players involved. 2 Snipers makes for a long match, but a straight run and gun in Speedball is over in under 2 minutes.

It's the CS rule- If you died, obviously someone is cheating. I usually make fun of that kind of crap at the beginning of the match, and laugh at people who make claims. Seriously, hacks are obvious. Super obvious. Just because a guy kills you with an AWP (OMG!!!111) doesn't mean he's a hacker. It just means you have no appreciable skill at CS.

Wait... You complain about dying too easily, and then say you like it's realism. Umm... did I MISS something here? Seriously. You can't have your cake and eat it too bud. Or something like that. Whatever.[/quote]
1) Even still.
2) If you die in the first 20 seconds, having to wait 2 minutes is still far too long. In TFC you wait, what, 5 seconds to respawn? That makes for way more constant action. When you consider points 1 and 2 together you see that a newb can get killed extremely quickly, and then have nothing to do for an annoyingly long time. That sucks.
3) Yep, it's the CS rule, and that is why I hate CS.

As for realism, I like realism in single player games, and I appreciate it elsewhere. When I want to blow my friends up in multiplayer, realism is irrelevant. Basically I appreciate the detail of the game and compliment the designers on what they've created, but the gameplay leaves something to be desired.

@curious
Exactly. Love it. My one complaint with it is that the classes are too unbalanced... when I play Sniper I'm good enough that I can get more kills than anyone but a HWGuy and hardly die at all, for instance, and unless you're playing with pros, HWGuys are way too strong.

[SothThe69th]

[quote="SothThe69th";p="342107"][quote="WCH";p="342093"]Problems with CS:
1) You die too damned easy. This makes the pros untouchable and screws over the newbs. At least in Team Fortress or the like a pro will take some damage when fighting a new player, not just kill him in one shot.

It's called body armor. It doesn't cost much. Try it sometime.[/quote]

Even still...[/quote]

Even still what? We should make the game go 3 times slower so that people can take their time aiming? Should we change the rules of baseball so that after the guy hits the ball, the outfielders have to wait 30 seconds before they go get it? If the player gets killed, it's because he sucks (or the other player got a really lucky shot, but we're not talking about that.).

Further, if you can't play with the big boys, get out of the yard, go find another server where the levels match you a bit more.

2) You have to wait too damned long before you can keep playing after you die. This is very annoying if you are one of those newbs described above, because it means that you die before even having a chance to shoot and that's it for the match.

That depends on the map you're running and the "puss" factor of the other players involved. 2 Snipers makes for a long match, but a straight run and gun in Speedball is over in under 2 minutes.

If you die in the first 20 seconds, having to wait 2 minutes is still far too long. In TFC you wait, what, 5 seconds to respawn? That makes for way more constant action. When you consider points 1 and 2 together you see that a newb can get killed extremely quickly, and then have nothing to do for an annoyingly long time. That sucks.

Yes, you have to wait to respawn. I don't see a problem with that, if anything it should make you more cautious in the future, and also make you want to chack your 9, 3, and 6 ever so often, look around corners before running down them, and strafe. It's a hard lesson, but one you should be learning. Every time you die, you should be saying, "Okay, how can I *not* die the next round?" I have no doubt that every worthwhile CS player does.

3) The majority of people who play it either cheat or claim that everyone else cheats. In Team Fortress, Halo, Death Match Classic, Goldeneye or any of the other dozen games I've played with friends and strangers alike, when someone dies we laugh about it. In CS when someone dies they get extremely pissed off, and the person who killed them usually insults them repeatedly, just to be a cunt.

It's the CS rule- If you died, obviously someone is cheating. I usually make fun of that kind of crap at the beginning of the match, and laugh at people who make claims. Seriously, hacks are obvious. Super obvious. Just because a guy kills you with an AWP (OMG!!!111) doesn't mean he's a hacker. It just means you have no appreciable skill at CS.

Yep, it's the CS rule, and that is why I hate CS.

Thanks for ignoring the rest of what I said. Appreciate it. But, seriously, when you're having actual fun, it doesn't matter if you're alive or dead. And accusations of cheating simply aren't going to pop up, because, you know, people are having fun.

Aside from those three things it's a pretty decent game. The realism of the weapons and tactics involved as well as the suspence of it all makes for a solid game, provided all the players are in good moods, know that none of the others are cheaters and are around the same skill level -- that, of course, never happens.

Wait... You complain about dying too easily, and then say you like it's realism. Umm... did I MISS something here? Seriously. You can't have your cake and eat it too bud. Or something like that. Whatever.

As for realism, I like realism in single player games, and I appreciate it elsewhere. When I want to blow my friends up in multiplayer, realism is irrelevant. Basically I appreciate the detail of the game and compliment the designers on what they've created, but the gameplay leaves something to be desired.

If you don't care about realism in CS, then, hey, I've got a great idea, get to editting! Fix the server config files to make the game more fun. Ban the AWP (or whatever you consider the current overpowered weapon of death.). Lower the damage! It's not ridiculously hard.

Or, another idea- Play another mod, there's bunches, they're all pretty much the same when you come right down to it. Get a gun, kill somebody.

[cronO]

Not directed to anyone, but as a general statement, people who complain about games being unfair usually are:

A) Not very good at them
B) Not very experienced
C) Dumb

I can understand that there are some games that are fair and some games that are not. However, most games are made to be more fair so that the developer/creator doesn't have to hear people whining about how unfair the game is. CS has two main types of game play: CS maps and DE maps. (as, es, ka, kz, and fy maps aren't in many map rotations.) CS maps are biased towards the terrorists because they get to set up and guard the hostages. DE maps are baised towards the CT's because they get to set up and guard the bomb sites. "Unfair!" you scream as the ct's camp the bombsite and you rush hopelessly to your death. Well, it's all about strategy, and I understand that you may not get that so much from playing in publics so much as you would if you played leagues, but the fact remains: You can counteract just about everything the other team can do to you.

If they:

You should:

Have an awp

Throw smoke grenades

are camping

use flashbangs to your advantages

are rushing

let them come to you, it's easier to kill them if they're running and your taking your time to line up your shots.

stack all/most of their players in one area

go the other way

It's really not that hard to get good at CS... all it takes is some aim practice and a few weeks worth of teamplay experience. I know most of you will probably never use this information, but I didn't get to be as good as I am without learning things the hard way. I didn't just wake up one day and say, "hey, I'm awesome at CS!"

Good luck, and aside from one pm I got (from someone telling me to go pub on a west server which I ping 100 to) I still haven't gotten any real challenges.

[BillyBlaze]

Greg, do you blame a car for the crappy driver in it when it gets crashed?


*mourns his loss of 1337*

[Mr.Shroom]

I blame Destronomous, Dark God of Automobile Destruction and Divine Blight of all Drivers.


...and for the last FREAKIN' time, we've established that the issue wasn't the game merits, but rather how often it seems to be the singular game evident at LANs.

[BillyBlaze]

Yes, I'm aware.

[Zaph]

I dont check the forums for a whole 14 hours and I have to go through posts that are borderline novels, so I am sorry that this reply is late.

Mr. Shroom:
[quote="Mr.Shroom";p="341988"]Thats an issue of semantics, Zaph. And as Greg mentioned, his point wasn't the merit of the game (though one could see why you thought as much), it was the replay value, the actual enjoyment of the game, and the potential effect on peoples attitudes.[/quote]

I understand he was not talking about the merrit of the game I was actually responding to this post:

[quote="Foo";p="341979"]I used to be a CS addict, I played religiously 2-3 hours a day during the beta days, then during the "sell out" of 1.0 I took a break for about a year, discovered DoD, and havent really been able to get back into CS since. Though I agree. "All good things come to an end" and CS's should be sooner then later.[/quote]

But I will agree that there are places in a BYOC that seem to be the overclock/mod section of the lan, but I find that even with all that shit I still tend to beat them.
As for not running all of the latest games when they come out because I am not running a machine that came out 2 hours ago... Meh! If they really want to bitch because I cant run EverQuest 2(for the record I dont play EQ, but it is a good example of the need for a suped up pc) wide open then they can go cry in the corner, cause I dont give a shit.

Greg:
[quote="Greg Dean";p="342017"]Blah blah blah, I repect you shroom but I fear you... yadda yadda yadda..
ahh here is the good stuff:
And 2-3 hours is religious for someone who works 9 hours a day, lives with his girlfriend, and has a life. 2-3 hours on a weekday is oodles of gaming time. If you're playing games nonstop all day long, it's time for an intervention.

Anyway, that's my point of view, take it or leave it. It's just an opinion, so I'll leave it be at that.[/quote]

I work about 9 hours a day, I have a fiancee, and I have a fairly active social life(off the computer), and I am still able to play 1-3 hours a day(suday through thursday, Friday and Saturday are for Becky only). I really dont think it is that religious, but I wont always be playing the same game. Though I think that if Becky wants a Grad student and a TA I probably wouldnt have as much time as I do, but that is niether her nor there.
Anyways, Greg, I will take your opinion and put it in my pocket and label it Greg Dean so that it will be forever known as yours.

-Zaph

[WCH]

@cron0
Oh, of course. I never said it's impossible to win anything. I just see it as possibly the single most newb-unfriendly game in existance, and I don't like that. I'm pretty good at FPSs so I can pick up on it, but I prefer a game which I can play against people who've just started and actually expect them to put up a fight. You don't get that in CS. You just get a bunch of pros intellectually masturbating and making fun of the people who haven't spent at least 1000 hours mastering the game and therefore aren't able to survive more than 30 seconds, and a bunch of idiots whining about cheating.

[Zaph]

[quote="WCH";p="342400"]@cron0
Oh, of course. I never said it's impossible to win anything. I just see it as possibly the single most newb-unfriendly game in existance, and I don't like that. I'm pretty good at FPSs so I can pick up on it, but I prefer a game which I can play against people who've just started and actually expect them to put up a fight. You don't get that in CS. You just get a bunch of pros intellectually masturbating and making fun of the people who haven't spent at least 1000 hours mastering the game and therefore aren't able to survive more than 30 seconds, and a bunch of idiots whining about cheating.[/quote]

God you must really suck to be whining like a big pussy. For those of you who cant speak Little Bitch, allow me to translate WCH's post:

"I am a little bitch. I just started to play CS and I am not a master so therefore the game is the shittiest in the world. Oh and did I mention I was a little bitch. I just want to bitch more because I have to work to get good at a game. Oh and if you didnt catch it the first time I am a little bitch."

I think that is about the gist of what was said.

-Zaph

[curious-george]

please let this thread die. argue(sp?) through pms.

[Mae Dean]

Um... wow. A point's been made... I'm just not sure which one.

Posted Wed May 26, 2004 9:02 am:

Argh! Ninja'd by Curious George!! I'll get you, George!!

[BillyBlaze]

Not if the man in the big yellow hat has anything to do with it.

[Mae Dean]

That dude's a tool. He couldn't stop me if he tried. I will have my vengeance on that inquisitive simian... just you wait.

[curious-george]

I gave the man in the yellow hat ebola and aids! Muhahahahaha!
Oh yeah, im now a monkey ninja who was hired to to get you greg!

<<<<< that monkey is helping with my work as well

I'll commit seppuku before you get to me GREG! Muhahahahaha! oh wait, no i wont.