The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

Rembrandt Q. Einstein · Post by **Rembrandt Q. Einstein** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:24 am

Sigh

I'm lloking at laptops for college, and with a basic budget of about a $1000, few good options loom, but one was proposed by my brother, who I usually consider to know his way around computers (degree in CS, worked in a CompUSA for a while, so he knows his stuff for the most part). That suggestion was an iBook.

Some of you may know that I have no favor for macs, but the worst part is that this seems like a relatively idea, it's small, light, fairly fast, and cheap, but one question looms: do I dare take that leap?

I will still keep my PC desktop, so I won't be going all-mac, and that makes me feel better, but we're going to the apple store tonight so I can give OSX a whirl and see if I like it enough to take the plunge...wish me luck.

okay, the real reason I wrote this is for feedback on iBooks, good and (especially) bad, specifically the cheap barebones 12" model.

SothThe69th · Post by **SothThe69th** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:34 am

Read this first before you do anything else.

TopCat · Post by **TopCat** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:52 am

This ones the best reason to not use it, so far that is.

Unlike the Trash in Mac OS pre-X, and even the Recycle Bin in Windows, the Trash in Mac OS X has no idea where any of the items inside it came from.

Felan · Post by **Felan** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:24 am

While some of them are valid points, others I think are more of a super nitpicky kind of sort. For instance

Some windows use a brushed metal appearance, while others do not. This distinction exists for no apparent reason.

As since this has to do with the application itself (OSX 10.2 used the aqua blue interface while 10.3 uses brushed metal. Even if I have 10.2 iTunes has brushed metal while everything else is the regular aqua look)

or this

Pressing the Escape key would be a reliable method of cancelling any drag, except that it doesn’t work when dragging an icon out of the Dock.

to me I would be "umm...why dont you just drag it back to the dock if you want to cancel it?"
I dunno. Its one of those things you really should try for yourself. I like OSX and my iBook. It has its ups and downs much like Windows and Linux and DOS and whatnot.

As for the "trash thing" its a good bad thing. It probaly could use remembering where it came from...but usualy when I throw it in the trash..i want it deleted...and which brings me up to another point...why would you want ot edit and save a file thats in the trash (regardless of any OS)?

I bought my iBook for school work, and for that purpose its nice. I agree it has partly to do with teh astetics of it. It also comes to other things as well: do you want to be able to use your windows apps that you already have, or do you not mind going to another OS system?

AizawaTakako · Post by **AizawaTakako** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:36 am

While I don't mean to say your brother's not so computer savvy, this may sound like such. A degree in CS and working for CompUSA of all places hardly makes someone a reliable computer advisor. Hell, I dropped out of college *COUGH*over priced bookstore*COUGH* and people I know who've graduated with CS degrees still come to me with questions, one of them being my dad who only got out of a CC two years ago.

Do I sound pretentious yet? Oh well, guess it can't be helped. Just saying not everything is as it seems when it comes to computer knowledgeability.

If it's opinions you want, then this or better yet another site/forum solely devoted to computer issues would be your best bet for information.

I don't like Macs, I don't like RISC processors, I don't like bloat, but those factors aren't going to affect what I'm going to say next, which is:

Macs are NOT cheaper than PCs, and even moreso when you factor in that they come with NO SOFTWARE besides the basic OS.

If you're looking into a cheap sub-$1000 ($999

) laptop, you may want to consider this one:
http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/3200series.htm
12.1” XGA TFT
Athlon XP-M 2000+
1 inch thin
4.2 pounds
256MB DDR RAM
40GB
DVD / CD-RW
54g Wireless

(This was just a quick search, this one doesn't come with software either, just saying that they usually do.)

Felan · Post by **Felan** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:24 am

[quote="AizawaTakako";p="371259"]

Macs are NOT cheaper than PCs, and even moreso when you factor in that they come with NO SOFTWARE besides the basic OS.

If you're looking into a cheap sub-$1000 ($999

) laptop, you may want to consider this one:
http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/3200series.htm
12.1” XGA TFT
Athlon XP-M 2000+
1 inch thin
4.2 pounds
256MB DDR RAM
40GB
DVD / CD-RW
54g Wireless

(This was just a quick search, this one doesn't come with software either, just saying that they usually do.)[/quote]

No Macs are not cheaper, nor have they ever claimed to be.
As for software, macs do come with some software more than just the OS. (and im not considering X server and any of those apps)

I cant say I have ever heard of avertec, aside from my iBook ive always been leaning towards Toshibas with Centrino processors with their pretty good performance and nice battery life.

As for CS majors, depends on the reliabitlity of person and among other things. There is a difference between a computer programmer and a computer engineer.

AizawaTakako · Post by **AizawaTakako** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:35 am

I think you misinterpreted, or my wording was just bad.
Rem wanted feedback and judging from the post it seemed price was one of his deciding factors, so I offered a better deal.
(I've seen the 12" barebones iBook before)

As for bundled software, could you expand on that? Because I've never in my life seen any for Macs.
(I don't consider QuickTime, iMovie, iTunes, iDVD, etc as bundled software since they're basically of the "free" variety, and alternatives can be found for free.)

The $5000 G5s we got for the graphics lab at my old HS didn't even have CD writing software. Sure, that's not a huge issue when you only need to burn stuff, but without 3rd party software, you have NOTHING to erase and reuse CD-RWs with.

Felan · Post by **Felan** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:57 am

I think you can get iLife bundled (enhanced versions of iTunes,iMovies..etc) with the new ones. I think for educational purchases you can get keynote bundled with it as well (a really nice presentation program). It of course comes with Appleworks...which is ok..I prefer Office X.x though.

Even for pc, bundles are rather based on liscensing of whatever company you buy it from. I do kinda wish macs would be bundled with X.x.

As for cd-writing, it has it built into the operation system. For basic stuff, you can do just like how you would in XP, drop the CD in (usualy it will ask what software you want to use to burn with, iTunes, Finder, or Disk copy or some other program) and drag files. For .isos and dmg files you would use disk copy. The only beef i have is with CD-RWs. To erase a disk, you have to use the Disk utlity program thats hidden away in the applications/utilities folder.
But like XP, there are better 3rd party programs out there to use (all I know of is Toast for mac)

AizawaTakako · Post by **AizawaTakako** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:02 am

Well... I guess the IT department at my old school district just aren't good negotiators, cause they got nothing in the way of bundled software for us. We had to get "special" licenses for our Mac copies of MS Office since we couldn't use the school's PC version licenses.

Thanks for the tip on the disk utility though, I'll have to let my old graphics teacher know about it. Good thing he's stuck with ZIP (*shudder*, but what can ya do?) instead of buying several copies of Toast for the lab.

Infin8Cyn · Post by **Infin8Cyn** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:43 am

Your brother probably suggested that because OSx is nice and purty on the outside, then has BSD (Linux) on the inside. This appeals to mannyyyyy the CS Major. However, to the common user here's what I see:
· New iBook = $1000
· New Office Package = $399.99
· Learning a new OS = $time
· Etc... Etc....

My rule of thumb. "Unless it truly doesn't work for what you're trying to do, don't change. Between the costs of time (learning curve) and new tools to buy (monetarily) the new system will cost you more than you planned on."

If you've got $1000 to play with. You can pick up a Dell Laptop for cheaper, with more pre-loaded software, more features (better screen-size, etc.), a warranty, and so on and so forth. Then, most come pre-loaded with office and such. You know the OS so there's no need to re-learn stuff....

My $0.02...

Edit: Wow, a Mac post w/o complete bashing! Who woulda expected that outta me?!

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:01 am

[quote="AizawaTakako";p="371259"]If you're looking into a cheap sub-$1000 ($999

) laptop, you may want to consider this one:
http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/3200series.htm[/quote]
If you do consider that, make sure you spend the extra $50 to double up to 512MB of RAM.

mikehendo · Post by **mikehendo** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:33 am

If you do buy an ibook, wait to purchase it until you are at your college. Apple ofen sells thier products to students at a decreased, student rate.

DeLorean623 · Post by **DeLorean623** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:55 am

A place for a good deal is the Dell outlet. Refurbished computers, usually with great warranties, and if you search around a bit, you can find cheap laptops with great packages (office, extra batteries, wireless, etc). outlet.dell.com

AizawaTakako · Post by **AizawaTakako** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:26 am

A thanks to DeLorean for pointing out Dell Outlet, I'd completely forgotten about them.

dell

$875.00
Pentium4 2.66GHz
14.1 inch XGA
256 MB DDR
30 GB EIDE
Internal NIC
Internal Modem
24X CDRW/DVD
Microsoft WorksSuite 2004
PAINT SHOP PRO 4.0 STANDARD
NORTON Internet Security 2004 90-day trial

What more could you need? (besides an extra stick of ram)

edited by zenny, shrank the URL

Rfairney · Post by **Rfairney** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:41 am

Dell
Either outlet, as mentioned, or the custom section has a clearance..
Custom specs they've built but the buyers have withdrawn, they put em up and sell em at SERIOUSLY decreased rates sometimes (Mine, Normal price : £1500+, bought price £800
P4 2.66,
14.1" XGA,
256MB DDR.
40GB HD
10/100 & Firewire
4xDVD+Rw
Internal Modem
2nd Battery
USB FDD
+Software

Real Life Forums

The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

Re: The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

Re: The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

Re: The Eternal Battle, and closed-mindedness!

Who is online