Do we really give a crap about helping people?

elroy · Post by **elroy** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:11 pm

*proud the Netherlands is number 3 in the second graph*
We might not be able to give as much aid in absolute figures because we're only a small country, but we're doing what we can.
On topic of the aids, don't the Bush administration anti aids programmes focus mainly on abstinence ? And I also remember something fishy going on about generic aids drugs being blocked in favour of the more expensive brand drugs. Who's got the details about that ?

Endless Dave · Post by **Endless Dave** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:12 pm

To be honest, I too have a problem with people sitting comfortably in their western homes and supporting a war in Iraq, or any other such conflict. I think the best way to determine whether or not one ought to support a military conflict is to imagine oneself as a soldier and think whether or not you would sacrifice your own life for this cause. Would I lay down my life for the purpose of removing saddam because he's a bad guy? No, I wouldn't. I don't think it's a worthy cause and I definitely don't think the whole idea was looked into long enough to justify the war (and, as it turned, the only justification that stood was saddam being a bad guy - no WMDs, no al qaeda, etc). Would I give up my life to protect innocent people in Sudan? I think I would, I think that's something that I could be proud to die for. Granted I'm not actually going out and signing up for the marines to go do just that, but I just think that it's a good meter stick to measure yourself by.

Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:31 pm

I think the best way to determine whether or not one ought to support a military conflict is to imagine oneself as a soldier and think whether or not you would sacrifice your own life for this cause.

In that case I don't think I'd support any war except one that was about directly protecting the well being of myself or those few people who are close to me, since that's the only thing I'd sacrifice my own life for.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:03 pm

As Az has just pointed out, that sentiment, while heart-warmingly hippie-ish, makes about as much sense in the real world as most hippies make.

Bjarni Herjolfsson · Post by **Bjarni Herjolfsson** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:06 am

We did help the Iraqis, yes. But if we were going set up democracies in the world with intention to help people, shouldnt our own people take precedence? Our educational facilities are deteriorating rapidly to the point where vertical mobility has become more difficult. Is this freedom?

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:49 am

ARGH! I'm done with this. There are entire books you could write on all that's wrong with that post. A series, perhaps.

Phoenix Talon · Post by **Phoenix Talon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:03 am

[quote="Bjarni Herjolfsson";p="395909"]We did help the Iraqis, yes. But if we were going set up democracies in the world with intention to help people, shouldnt our own people take precedence? Our educational facilities are deteriorating rapidly to the point where vertical mobility has become more difficult. Is this freedom?[/quote]

First off, what do you concider "our own people take precedence?" I, IMHO, would think it would mean safty from all threats, both internal and external. Therefore, removing a known threat to the world, again, in my eyes, seems to be a pretty good way to put the American public as "precedent." There were weapons of mass destruction. We know he had them. We were warned by Russia's intellegence. So if the US is getting blasted for "mis-information," why isn't russia if they blatently influenced our course of action? Just a thought.

And for the second part...Schools aren't as bad as you make them sound. Yes, there are problems. But what in the world DOESN'T have problems? Schools have had a 52% increase in funding since 2001. Yes, I know that doesn't mean each year they've gotten that much of an increase, but that's still a pretty big increase for a 3 year period. Either way, it's never as bad as media/politicians make it out to be.

If you don't like it, vote. THAT is the freedom you are given as an American. You don't like something, you can actually say it with out getting shot.

Of course, that's just my 2 cents.

MissCheetah · Post by **MissCheetah** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:11 am

With regard to schools, I get very angry at the idea that throwing money at schools will fix anything. Sure, some need new roofs, new books, etc, but that does not mean you can't learn while there, regardless of conditions.

I went to public schools in the US and had the same education opportunities as my classmates. I watched said classmates throw those chances away! We had the same teachers, same crappy books, same leaky roofs, yet they ended up in jail or on welfare and I went on to college an a decent job? Why? Because I cared. The teachers and books were more than adequate if you felt like trying. The problem I saw, as both a teacher and student, was that some kids really did not want to be there and did not want to try. If you goof off, do no HW, cause trouble in classes, of course you will fail. Why is it that people think all students try to learn to the same degree? You can't force a kid to learn when they really think it is "uncool" to do well in school.

In addition to fixing the issues of old school buildings and lack of books, how about considering the cultural issues that make doing well in school "uncool" among some groups that desperately need that education to advance in our society.

Terrik · Post by **Terrik** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:46 am

Aye, A student's attitude towards education goes a long way.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:51 am

MC, I really hope you're like this in real life, because you're seriously one of the coolest people I've known on the net, and it'd be a shame for it to all be an illusion.

peter-griffin · Post by **peter-griffin** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:55 am

Well, fuck you, Deacon.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:14 am

Well...fuck you back? Wait, isn't that Soth's job?

peter-griffin · Post by **peter-griffin** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:17 am

No, he receives.

elroy · Post by **elroy** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:12 am

the cultural issues that make doing well in school "uncool" among some groups

Watch it there, you're bordering on racism.

</sarcasm>

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