Perspectives on our world and our universe, how it works, what is happening, and why it happens. Whether by a hidden hand or natural laws, we come together to hash it out, and perhaps provide a little bit of education and enlightenment for others. This is a place for civil discussion. Please keep it that way.
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mrchapel
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by mrchapel » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:45 pm
At that time, the sheer number of Jews to be killed and the effect on the police of shooting women and children caused other methods to be investigated, culminating in the establishment of death camps such as Auschwitz, Treblinka and Sobibor in early 1942, to which Jews were transported and gassed with carbon monoxide or prussic acid (Zyklon B).
http://veritas2.holocaust-history.org/h ... -solution/
Its between footnote 5 and 6
I'll put something here eventually...
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Imperator Severn
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by Imperator Severn » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:27 am
So you're voting for Rembrandt, RQE?
I don't see pacifism as noble at all. Violence is an intergral part of the human animal. You can argue that that's good or bad, but it doesn't matter; people will always kill each other.
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Deacon
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by Deacon » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:42 am
It's not to say that peace isn't a noble goal, just that we must keep in mind that the only "peace" human beings are capable of is the kind that's enforfced by strength.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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Grumlen
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by Grumlen » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:39 am
Pacifism IS a noble goal, and problems that can be solved properly by non-violent means almost always should be. However, unconditional pacifism is just ludicrous. While I believe that violence should be avoided when possible, I also realize that there are times when there is simply no other means to properly settle things. When I gave those 4 options, I assumed that a peaceful solution was out of the question. This does not mean that I wouldn't consider it the best option however. While I admit that violence, or rather the desire to live by any means, is an innate part of us as a race, I don't see why we should give in totally to this baser instinct.
And Deacon, it IS entirely possible for a group of people to live in a peace that isn't "enforced" by strength. However, such a peace would only last until someone who didn't agree with that ideology came along. As I said, in order to maintain peace in this world one must be willing to defend it from those who seek to destroy it.
"I'll have to confess, Mr. Chairman, that I am also a video game player. I have worked my way up to Civilization IV. I haven't yet been able to beat it but I at least understand the fundamentals of it." - Texas Representative Joe Barton
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mrchapel
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by mrchapel » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:28 am
[quote="Deacon";p="402128"]It's not to say that peace isn't a noble goal, just that we must keep in mind that the only "peace" human beings are capable of is the kind that's enforfced by strength.[/quote]
Peace through superior firepower.
Although it isn't realistic... in an ideal society there would be no laws (no strength to enforce them), nor would there be any need form them.
However we live in the real world... where exactly what Deacon said is true.
Its important to note however that peace is not a goal of passive resistance, usually the direct opposite. The sit-ins in the south were not meant to bring about any peace, the purpose was to rock the boat and bring attention (and eventually reform) to an issue.
I'll put something here eventually...
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Imperator Severn
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by Imperator Severn » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:32 pm
No, I didn't explain myself very well. I don't see pacifism as being noble, and I don't see war as a "baser instinct." Some people simply need to die. That's where I come in.
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Deacon
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by Deacon » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:12 pm
[quote="Grumlen";p="402315"]in order to maintain peace in this world one must be willing to defend it from those who seek to destroy it.[/quote]
Yes, exactly. That's why I said:
[quote="Deacon";p="402128"]the only "peace" human beings are capable of is the kind that's enforfced by strength.[/quote]
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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mrchapel
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by mrchapel » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:39 pm
[quote="Imperator Severn";p="402403"]No, I didn't explain myself very well. I don't see pacifism as being noble, and I don't see war as a "baser instinct." Some people simply need to die. That's where I come in.[/quote]
Are you an assassin of some sort?
edit: added the
because people actually took it seriously
Last edited by
mrchapel on Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'll put something here eventually...
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StruckingFuggle
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by StruckingFuggle » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:57 am
[quote="mrchapel";p="402502"][quote="Imperator Severn";p="402403"]No, I didn't explain myself very well. I don't see pacifism as being noble, and I don't see war as a "baser instinct." Some people simply need to die. That's where I come in.[/quote]
Are you an assassin of some sort?[/quote]
Soldier, as far as I know. So his job involves (even if not directly) killing a lot of people who doesn't Need To Die, as well.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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Rembrandt Q. Einstein
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by Rembrandt Q. Einstein » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:59 am
You called Sev a soldier, prepare to feel his wrath.
"GREASE ME WITH LARD AND GLUE MY ASS CLOSED I'M HEADING FOR THE HILLS!" -Mandor
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Imperator Severn
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by Imperator Severn » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:08 am
Are you an assassin of some sort?
Are you aware that your question is stupid?
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StruckingFuggle
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by StruckingFuggle » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:20 am
[quote="Rembrandt Q. Einstein";p="402708"]You called Sev a soldier, prepare to feel his wrath.[/quote]
Let him wrath me, semantics is on my side.
[quote="Imperator Severn";p="402709"]
Are you an assassin of some sort?
Are you aware that your question is stupid?[/quote]
Wouldn't assassination be better than war for killing people who need to die, usually?
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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Imperator Severn
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by Imperator Severn » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:42 am
[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="402718"][quote="Rembrandt Q. Einstein";p="402708"]You called Sev a soldier, prepare to feel his wrath.[/quote]
Let him wrath me, semantics is on my side.
[/quote]
Actually, no, it isn't, but this has been done. It no longer interests me.
[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="402718"][quote="Imperator Severn";p="402709"]
Are you an assassin of some sort?
Are you aware that your question is stupid?[/quote]
Wouldn't assassination be better than war for killing people who need to die, usually?[/quote]
Wouldn't it be stupid to ask an assassin if he were an assassin?
And yes, it would, but for some reason war is considered more acceptable. Don't ask me why.
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StruckingFuggle
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by StruckingFuggle » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:49 am
[quote="Imperator Severn";p="402733"]Wouldn't it be stupid to ask an assassin if he were an assassin?[/quote]
Oh. Point. :p I'm dumb tonight.
As for the "soldier" thing - fair enough, but I am curious - what IS the catch-all term for all people serving in the military?
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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