America- and the world's opinion of her.

[Herr Doktor!]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="427154"]Actually, Mike, Herr Doktor actually added to the conversation with his last post. Everyone seems to be focusing on one little thing he said, and missing where he was actually addressing the topic at hand.[/quote]

Nah don't blame em. It's easy to skip over two thirds of a post. I'm sure it was just an inadvertant blink while scrolling down.

Or maybe it's the more plausible explanation of them only seeing what they want to see.

In passing I can predict Mike, Deacon, or Ronin will answer to the bout in this post thus further ignoring the actual meaning of both your posts and mine.

[R.Bloodgood]

Here's a hint. When a liberal says he wants you to "acknowledge" his views, what he really mean is that you have to say that he's right. And once again, I will allow you to decide whether that was sarcasm or cynicism. Or was it both? You can't tell, 'cause I don't use smileys!

[D-Mac]

I see it differently, Doc. There's two types of countries: Free and not free. When you really get down to the socio-economics, the US isn't the "free-est" country. No country would be. It really depends on your definition of freedom, and what's important to you.

You tend to bag on the US quite a bit. I can see where hearing people say they live in the best country can offend, espicially if it isn't where you live. Because of this, Americans can have a tendency to come off as shortsighted, apparantly lacking an intrenational perspective.

Most of the countries you mentioned don't allow you to own firearms, a concept that is foreign to me. My government is based on the rejection of tyranny, and I support a smaller governmental role in life. I also enjoy the "nobody fucks with us, hear me?!? NOBODY!!! *KABOOM!*" spirit that comes with this country.

Now, that isn't everyone's utopia. That's ok. And this isn't even my utopia, because we have Republicans pushing moral legislature. That should be a contradiction. The US provides freedom from governmental persecution. Problem is, some US citizens have a tendency to make up for that. Every nation has it's problems, though.

I like the free countries. And I think I live in the best one of them, because we've got the power to kick some ass if need be. The USA isn't just free, it has the power to stick up for its friends.

[Ric_Price]

D-Mac, for the most part I agree with you. however I disagree with your blanket statement about Republicas. I am a Republican and I, as of yet, have not pushed for Legislating Morality. I believe Morality should be taught in the homes, churches, and to a small degree in the schools. Leave it at that and nothing more.

[Herr Doktor!]

Sincerely, thanks D-Mac.

I agree the notion of freedom depends on what you as a person wants, and hope I have made that clear in my post which some twats don't want to respond to (yah bloodgod, that's the concept of dicussion. And without smileys or smug sarcasm I'd like to quite openly state that you're a muppet). Guns is a good example. Some people would consider a gun ban to violate their freedom, some people would consider it to make them free from oppression.

Perhaps if more US citizens were inclined to voice their opinions in the way D-mac, martin and the like do it, they wouldn't generate so much dislike from the world except from your average fundamentalist (of course that would require an education for quite a lot of them). I don't think it would solve feelings of animosity, but it'd be a step in the right direction.

Anywhoooo, it's a nice feeling, to see some sensibility around here I can disagree with in a civil manner. Speaking of which whatever happened to Fixer?

[Deacon]

[quote="Ric_Price";p="427423"]I am a Republican and I, as of yet, have not pushed for Legislating Morality.[/quote]
I really wish people would clarify what they mean, since by definition "enforcing morality" is the sole purpose of legislation in the first place. Are you referring to creating laws to enforce, perhaps, what only a small portion of voters consider to be "moral"?

[Azurain]

Gah! Legislating protection of citizens from outside forces and from each other is not legislating morality. You can frame protection in a moral context, but it can rightly be seen in numerous other contexts, such as a societally-functional context, a self-interest context, or a logical context. Legislating things that make society work--taxes, social security, and such--is functional. Such legislation might be motivated by the moral views of the people legislating it (I think it's immoral to allow a man to starve to death, so I might, had I the power, legislate that some taxes should go toward feeding those who would otherwise starve), but it is not the legislation of morality. Legislation of morality is when you try to impose your own morals on others, or on society as a whole, in a sense that is not directly related to self-preservation, in a sense that cannot be directly shown to have non-moral functions that are sufficient to justify it.

Someday, Deacon, you and I have to have a good, long argument about this, I think...

[D-Mac]

Clarifications:

1.) I am a Republican.

2.) I believe Republicans are supposed to believe in less Government. (Like Libertarians, Pro choice on everything.)

3.) I'm pissed because some republicans have liberals all shaken up, fearing abortions are going to be taken away, Prayer is going to be returned to schools, the 10 commandments are going to be added to US law, etc.

4.) Yes, Deacon and Az. When I say legislating morality, I mean the less-than-necessary laws enforcing the will of a minority onto the majority. I believe many such laws should be State matters, not Federal matters.

[Deacon]

And when state matters bleed over into other states, what then?

[Nekra]

Before i read anymore and steal other people opinions becuase i agree with them, i thought i should post my impresison of america, as it stands before hearing other peoples.

For the most part i see america as a rolling arrogant blob of consummerism, with a bloated opinion of its own self worth, mixed with an unhealthy dose of religious belief. Most americans seem to be stuck into the so called american dream where they are the worlds only true bastions of hope and glory. a land of the free, like they are stuck on the frontier, without realising the frontier moved on and left them behind wollowing in their own self worth. Most americans seem to not realise that big chunks of the world are just as, if not more free then they are. A stagnated cesspool of capitalistic corruption as a small number of people slowly take over and dominate their socierty.
But that aside, america does have a lot of good points, those that care do care, most of the few americans i have met face to face, i have liked as open individuals, America helps to fund some of the best developments of human socierty. The arrogance that annoys me hasn't shown itself amongst most people in this forum, as much as it does in the words and actions of your leaders, america has its problems but it does seem that your government is trying to misdirect its people's attention by claiming to be fixing problems around the world. America's strength as the largest country in the world seems to make it feel that it has carte blanc rights to do as it feels without consideration for other peoples feelings, a sentiment that was once shared by quite a few of the other western nations, but which they seem to have grown out off. In some regards america acts like the school bully in the playground. My interpretation of this is that although there are intelligent hard working americans who deserve and have my respect, there are also a large number of idiots who bring down my opinion of your nation.

[peter-griffin]

Your country wouldn't know a thing about arrogance, right?

[D-Mac]

[quote="Nekra";p="428228"]America's strength as the largest country in the world seems to make it feel that it has carte blanc rights to do as it feels without consideration for other peoples feelings, a sentiment that was once shared by quite a few of the other western nations, but which they seem to have grown out off.[/quote]
Less grown out of, more they lack that kind of power today. But that's my opinion, and I could be wrong.

The problem with you Europeans is that you all seem to take the worst parts of my country, look at the dumbest portion of the population, and only notice the bad foreign policy. Don't kill me for the generalization here, but most of the "weighing in" posts people made here didn't really consider that the US does a bunch of good stuff. I think we're treated like jackasses because we're an easy country to dislike.

Posted Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:58 am:

Right, Deacon: That's where it begins to be a problem. However, I don't see too many issues where bleeding can be a problem. The Save Marriage Act is an example of how to keep matters between states. If something is really controversial, it can be outlawed, but I'd want to get more specific here.

[StruckingFuggle]

It's not like "We're" saints, either. We DO do and have done a lot of bad shit. And I don't know who did it first (probably "them") ... but we do harp on their bad points and ignore what they do, too.

[D-Mac]

I agree, and I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone. This looks like the main issue to me. Everyone looks at the bad stuff. (And sorry about the "we" and "they" usage!)

The question is, why?

[Nekra]

Were not so much arrogant as stuck in the past.