A simple question about the Bible.
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1) Remain civil. Respect others' rights to their viewpoints, even if you believe them to be completely wrong.
2) Sourcing your information is highly recommended. Plagiarism will get you banned.
3) Please create a new thread for a new topic, even if you think it might not get a lot of responses. Do not create mega-threads.
4) If you think the subject of a thread is not important enough to merit a post, simply avoid posting in it. If enough people agree, it will fall off the page soon enough.
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Hidden Sanity
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[quote="Deacon";p="430678"]I'm honestly not sure why the Roman Empire was even brought up, as that was way after the flood.[/quote]
That's true, too... but even at the time of the alleged flood, humanity was far more spread out than people think. The beginnings of Western Civilisation were pretty centralised, but... *shakes his head*
That's true, too... but even at the time of the alleged flood, humanity was far more spread out than people think. The beginnings of Western Civilisation were pretty centralised, but... *shakes his head*
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
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Hidden Sanity
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Hidden Sanity
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Blatantly false. At best for most people in Asia they'd have been 'Westerners.' And that's only in the places where there'd have been any exposure. Many, if not most, places in Asia wouldn't even have any real conception of a significant population to the west. Perhaps the aristocracy and scholars would have know, and certainly the traders, but... *sighs* The details of their religion would have been utterly inconsequential and completely unknown to the populace.pretty much everyone knew who the Romans WERE
And the area in question where it all started was just some 'tiny corner of land.' Which is what Fuggle was saying. You're the one who brought the Roman Empire into it. If you'll look back, you'll see that he observed that it started in a tiny corner and spread outward, and he wonders why it didn't start in other places too, since it obviously didn't spread nearly far enough outward from that one place.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
-
Hidden Sanity
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- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:37 am
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Well, it did spread to a large chuck of Asia, Africa, and pretty much all of Europe, but people in America, Australia, southern Africa, a good chuck of the "far east" didn't get it for many years. As for why? Well, people who hadn’t heard, but still learned from the world around them and sought the truth, as has happened in many cultures, will also be in heaven, and after the initial burst of evangelizem, Christianity became fairly lazy, although a fair bit of evangelizem continued in the east, it pretty much stopped and festered in the west. and as Azurain pointed out, beliving that "pretty much everyone knew who the Romans WERE" shows that history is not your strong suite.
there are four sides to every coin.
But wait, if people who don't know about it and just live a good life will end up in heaven as well... why spread the word at all? Especially spread it to people who you know will almost certainly not convert? Assuming, of course, that once you know it but refuse to convert you're damned...
Seriously, by trying to convert people in cultures with strong religions already present, all you do is make more people aware of the religion, thereby damning more and more people, right? Or are you immune, too, if you live in a culture that makes it unlikely that you'd be able to shed your previous ingrained beliefs to be Christian instead? And in that case, if that's an excuse what about those who are incapable of faith, such as myself... why would we not be exempt? *boggles*
Seriously, by trying to convert people in cultures with strong religions already present, all you do is make more people aware of the religion, thereby damning more and more people, right? Or are you immune, too, if you live in a culture that makes it unlikely that you'd be able to shed your previous ingrained beliefs to be Christian instead? And in that case, if that's an excuse what about those who are incapable of faith, such as myself... why would we not be exempt? *boggles*
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
-
Hidden Sanity
- Highly Sophisticated Artificial Intelligence
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:37 am
- Location: East of my Tolkien books, south of my computer, west of my Sci-fi shelf, and north of my bed.
Re: A simple question about the Bible.
So far it's mostly the west that has failed their attempts at spreading the word, and do you know why? because they're trying to take the mystery out of it, they're trying to understand God, the infante, with there heads!! they are attempting to put God the all powerful, into a box so that we can study and understand him/her/it!! and anyone who is the Least bit in tune with nature KNOWS (even if they don't know that they know) that you cannot, and will not understand everything, ever.
And yes, spreading the truth (I believe what my church teaches to be the truth, even if you don’t, so I’m calling it the truth, deal with it.) Because many of these places still had serious problems, although some people found the truth, far from everyone did, and almost every culture accepted the truth when it was spread in a proper manner. I’m sorry, snatching children from their families and indoctrinating them doesn’t count, nor does the old “join us or die” routine, I mean, Christians spent years of being given that choice and choosing death, so why the heck did the west start giving other cultures that choice??? It makes no sense!!
And yes, spreading the truth (I believe what my church teaches to be the truth, even if you don’t, so I’m calling it the truth, deal with it.) Because many of these places still had serious problems, although some people found the truth, far from everyone did, and almost every culture accepted the truth when it was spread in a proper manner. I’m sorry, snatching children from their families and indoctrinating them doesn’t count, nor does the old “join us or die” routine, I mean, Christians spent years of being given that choice and choosing death, so why the heck did the west start giving other cultures that choice??? It makes no sense!!
there are four sides to every coin.
Wait... In Japan it was spread in a very peaceful and fair fashion (you couldn't go to Japan and try to force a religion on them, that's for sure), and yet there are very few Christian Japanese at this point...
And wow... can't understand anything at all, ever? Sure that's not just your own failure of intellectual capacity there?
"Oh no! People are actually applying their minds to attempt to figure out how things really are rather than just sucking up all the regurgitated tripe they've been fed in the past..."
I'd say we can't know anything absolutely, ever, but we can surely understand many things to a significant degree.
And wow... can't understand anything at all, ever? Sure that's not just your own failure of intellectual capacity there?
"Oh no! People are actually applying their minds to attempt to figure out how things really are rather than just sucking up all the regurgitated tripe they've been fed in the past..."I'd say we can't know anything absolutely, ever, but we can surely understand many things to a significant degree.
Last edited by Azurain on Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
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StruckingFuggle
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...Well, to be fair, it might have had some help by the fact that for a long period of time, the Christian Missionaries were at best not welcomed by the government, and sometimes outright slaughtered in Japan.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
What about China, then? The British half ruled China for a while, the Portugese were much more well accepted there than in Japan when they first arrived, and yet... *shrugs* It sure didn't spread like wildfire...
Actually, the only places where it did really take hold were the places where it was imposed on a populace by a conqueror/occupier, generally. Europe originally, for instance, where it was insinuated through the Romans, who ruled. Then places like Africa and parts of South America where it was the same situation, with Europeans ruling or dominating (now we dominate financially)...
Hell, it may have set in in Islamic areas were it not for the fact that, well, Christians never really managed to conquer Islam. After all, many Spanish and "Byzantine" Christians converted when their regions were occupied by Islam...
Actually, the only places where it did really take hold were the places where it was imposed on a populace by a conqueror/occupier, generally. Europe originally, for instance, where it was insinuated through the Romans, who ruled. Then places like Africa and parts of South America where it was the same situation, with Europeans ruling or dominating (now we dominate financially)...
Hell, it may have set in in Islamic areas were it not for the fact that, well, Christians never really managed to conquer Islam. After all, many Spanish and "Byzantine" Christians converted when their regions were occupied by Islam...
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
-
Hidden Sanity
- Highly Sophisticated Artificial Intelligence
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:37 am
- Location: East of my Tolkien books, south of my computer, west of my Sci-fi shelf, and north of my bed.
[quote="Azurain";p="430780"]And wow... can't understand anything at all, ever? Sure that's not just your own failure of intellectual capacity there? "Oh no! People are actually applying their minds to attempt to figure out how things really are rather than just sucking up all the regurgitated tripe they've been fed in the past..."
I'd say we can't know anything absolutely, ever, but we can surely understand many things to a significant degree.[/quote]
First: I said “everything” not “anything”
[quote="Azurain";p="430786"]What about China, then? The British half ruled China for a while, the Portugese were much more well accepted there than in Japan when they first arrived, and yet... *shrugs* It sure didn't spread like wildfire...
Actually, the only places where it did really take hold were the places where it was imposed on a populace by a conqueror/occupier, generally. Europe originally, for instance, where it was insinuated through the Romans, who ruled. Then places like Africa and parts of South America where it was the same situation, with Europeans ruling or dominating (now we dominate financially)...
Hell, it may have set in in Islamic areas were it not for the fact that, well, Christians never really managed to conquer Islam. After all, many Spanish and "Byzantine" Christians converted when their regions were occupied by Islam...[/quote]
Second: Again with “the westren Christians trying to understand God, and remove the mystery and mysticism out of life, and God” argument.
"Oh no! People are actually applying their minds to attempt to figure out how things really are rather than just sucking up all the regurgitated tripe they've been fed in the past..."I'd say we can't know anything absolutely, ever, but we can surely understand many things to a significant degree.[/quote]
First: I said “everything” not “anything”
[quote="Azurain";p="430786"]What about China, then? The British half ruled China for a while, the Portugese were much more well accepted there than in Japan when they first arrived, and yet... *shrugs* It sure didn't spread like wildfire...
Actually, the only places where it did really take hold were the places where it was imposed on a populace by a conqueror/occupier, generally. Europe originally, for instance, where it was insinuated through the Romans, who ruled. Then places like Africa and parts of South America where it was the same situation, with Europeans ruling or dominating (now we dominate financially)...
Hell, it may have set in in Islamic areas were it not for the fact that, well, Christians never really managed to conquer Islam. After all, many Spanish and "Byzantine" Christians converted when their regions were occupied by Islam...[/quote]
Second: Again with “the westren Christians trying to understand God, and remove the mystery and mysticism out of life, and God” argument.
there are four sides to every coin.
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