Another topic from me...I'm just verbose, what can I say? Well...that I guess.
Anyway, Che Guevara. Idolised by many, but as far as I can tell not a lot of people seem to actually know that much about him.
I've never been one to take an opinion for granted and I won't believe in something without at least a bit of study and a mild questioning of those who already believe. I'm asking for all those who look up to Che to step forward here and tell me if my information is correct.
Basically, from what I've read, he was a good guy to start, but was way to focused and unable to change his views. That's alright, even admirable. But increasingly obvious as he went further in his chosen career as...well, a soldier, he showed an extremely violent outlook. I've read that he personally overlooked the torture and execution of prisoners.
He was also a man who not only supported but generally forced a policy of violence to achieve the ends he believed in. His major defining moment was to give up a profession of healing, for one of violence and he apparently never looked back.
Is this information correct?
If it is, should Che be idolised as much as he is?
I don't want Anti-Che flames, unless they add something to the choices. I would prefer for those who support Che to tell me why, to try to convince me that I should too.
Lastly, I should make a definite point that I don't want to offend anyone, I just want to expand my personal knowledge of politics, government and people in general.
Che Guevara
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1) Remain civil. Respect others' rights to their viewpoints, even if you believe them to be completely wrong.
2) Sourcing your information is highly recommended. Plagiarism will get you banned.
3) Please create a new thread for a new topic, even if you think it might not get a lot of responses. Do not create mega-threads.
4) If you think the subject of a thread is not important enough to merit a post, simply avoid posting in it. If enough people agree, it will fall off the page soon enough.
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StruckingFuggle
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You know, I hear THAT photo of him is public domain.
I want to slap it on a communism-red shirt, and then in yellow lettering, have him say "Do you even know who I was?"
Not really much to add.
Just saw the topic, and wanted to share.
Oh, just one thing...
... Damn right, he never flip-flopped on Abu Ghraib.
Oh ... you mean Che.
I want to slap it on a communism-red shirt, and then in yellow lettering, have him say "Do you even know who I was?"
Not really much to add.
Just saw the topic, and wanted to share.
Oh, just one thing...
Basically, from what I've read, he was a good guy to start, but was way to focused and unable to change his views. That's alright, even admirable. But increasingly obvious as he went further in his chosen career as...well, a soldier, he showed an extremely violent outlook. I've read that he personally overlooked the torture and execution of prisoners.
... Damn right, he never flip-flopped on Abu Ghraib.
Oh ... you mean Che.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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Deacon
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Re: Che Guevara
[quote="Inc_B";p="443508"]I'm just verbose, what can I say?[/quote]
A lot, according to you.
A lot, according to you.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
Gotta love names like that. Goes well with riots.
should be added as a smiley.
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StruckingFuggle
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YH - I'm guessing that was at my shirt comment - just knowing someone's name is a piss-poor answer to the question "who are they", y'know.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
[quote="Inc_B";p="443508"]If it is, should Che be idolised as much as he is?[/quote]
Americans intellectuals (mostly) tend to treat Guevara as a totalitarian. Well, nothing surprising since his ideology was Marxist-Leninist. Some people maintain that he is always an inspiration in the latin-American middle class in country like Argentina, Brazil, Chile or Cuba. Should Che be idolised as much as he is ? Hard to tell.
I strongly recommend you Diarios de motocicleta (The Motorcycle Diaries in English) of Walter Salles (2003). A Co-production of Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile and US. I also recommend you Che ! of Richard Fleischer (1969). In this movie, he's considered as a pure criminal an assassin. Read books from Latin-American writers. Ask to some Latin-American what they think of him.
This movie is also very interesting: Comandante (Oliver Stone, 2002). It's an interview with Fidel Castro, the real one. Some people should watch this instead of saying bullshit. I've nerver said that Castro is a good leader. Maybe he's just not the blood-thirsty bastard that some people think he is. It's exactly the same thing for Ernesto Guevara. He did a lot of bad moves, but also a lot of good one.
Americans intellectuals (mostly) tend to treat Guevara as a totalitarian. Well, nothing surprising since his ideology was Marxist-Leninist. Some people maintain that he is always an inspiration in the latin-American middle class in country like Argentina, Brazil, Chile or Cuba. Should Che be idolised as much as he is ? Hard to tell.
I strongly recommend you Diarios de motocicleta (The Motorcycle Diaries in English) of Walter Salles (2003). A Co-production of Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile and US. I also recommend you Che ! of Richard Fleischer (1969). In this movie, he's considered as a pure criminal an assassin. Read books from Latin-American writers. Ask to some Latin-American what they think of him.
This movie is also very interesting: Comandante (Oliver Stone, 2002). It's an interview with Fidel Castro, the real one. Some people should watch this instead of saying bullshit. I've nerver said that Castro is a good leader. Maybe he's just not the blood-thirsty bastard that some people think he is. It's exactly the same thing for Ernesto Guevara. He did a lot of bad moves, but also a lot of good one.
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Arc Orion
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This is a bit of a skew on the topic, but one of my teachers in high school was married to the daughter of a former Soviet general. When she was a child, her father actually took her to meet Fidel Castro and she actually sat in his lap. She said he was a very nice man. Of course, that doesn't mean he can't be a vicious dictator, but still...
I need fewer water.
[quote="Arc Orion";p="444215"]This is a bit of a skew on the topic, but one of my teachers in high school was married to the daughter of a former Soviet general. When she was a child, her father actually took her to meet Fidel Castro and she actually sat in his lap. She said he was a very nice man. Of course, that doesn't mean he can't be a vicious dictator, but still...[/quote]
stalin could be a very nice man, until he ordered your whole village moved to siberia, or worse.
stalin could be a very nice man, until he ordered your whole village moved to siberia, or worse.
"A good discussion is like a miniskirt; short enough to maintain interest and long enough to cover the subject."
[quote="Arc Orion";p="444443"]Like I said, "that doesn't mean he can't be a vicious dictator..."[/quote]
yes, but then you said "but still...". i just wanted to point out that there are no "but still..."s.
yes, but then you said "but still...". i just wanted to point out that there are no "but still..."s.
"A good discussion is like a miniskirt; short enough to maintain interest and long enough to cover the subject."
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