human and animal hybrids

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:28 am

Matters of faith are hard to slap onto matters of science.

Which is why they should be non-issues!

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:20 am

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="461523"]And then punishes us eternally for stepping out of line. If that's really loving then I guess Stalin was a rather all-loving mofo, too...[/quote]
Out of curiosity, what means more to you: a recorded greeting on an answering machine wishing you a good day or another beautiful human being choosing to be with you, look deeply in your eyes, and telling you that she cares for you so deeply that she honestly desires nothing the best for you, gives you a deep kiss, and wishes you a good day? Does it mean anything at all when a machine does what it's programmed to do versus a human being making a choice?

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:38 pm

You have a point, but just because the person makes a choice I don't like doesn't mean I'd consign them to eternal suffering. That's, y'know, what dictators do. People like Castro or Saddam or Mao - step out of line with the Party, and bam!

... hm. Another, perhaps better comparison, would be rape at gunpoint. "Love me or I shoot you!"

Azurain · Post by **Azurain** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:18 pm

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="461682"]... hm. Another, perhaps better comparison, would be rape at gunpoint. "Love me or I shoot you!"[/quote]
And the rape of his children, at that... :P

(don't worry, I still don't exist here, just couldn't resist making that one comment...)

Ruu · Post by **Ruu** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:11 pm

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="461523"]And then punishes us eternally for stepping out of line. If that's really loving then I guess Stalin was a rather all-loving mofo, too...[/quote]

Well, the answer to that according to the Christian faith is that we can ask God to forgive us any time. The whole Jesus-on-the-Cross thing was done so that all we had to do was say "Uh, God, I'm screwed up and I can't fix myself. Could you help?" Basically since we're all screwed from the get-go, God knows there's nothing we can do to earn our way into favor with him. So he'll actually give it from him for free if we actually get up the humility to recognize him as God and ask to be saved.

I don't think Stalin would have given out death pardons if you had asked him.

Posted Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:18 pm:

[quote="Blaze";p="461534"]
Your supposed "answer" is not only extremely lacking, but doesn't bode well for us that have other philosophies on the subject.[/quote]

Yes well, I wasn't about to lay out the entirety of Christian doctrine. That would take a while.

As for not boding well, uh, I'm not sure what I can say. If you disagree with it you disagree with it. This isn't exactly a forum where everyone has to get along and have the same views, is it?

I am curious now, what exactly are your philosophies?

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:21 pm

Well, the answer to that according to the Christian faith is that we can ask God to forgive us any time.

ANY time? What about after you die? I had thought that once you've died, judgement was eternal.

As for him forgiving you, forgiveness still comes with the strings attached of following all his rules ... notice, too, that the comandments about loyalty to god come before ones about how to treat other people. If you just asked him Stalin, or Saddam, or Castro probably wouldn't call off the firing squad, no, but maybe if you promise to toe the party line extremely closely, which is what God demands, too, for his forgiveness ....

tankkisankari · Post by **tankkisankari** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:04 pm

On a off topicy note, Apparently Stalin was supposed to become a priest before his world domination plans gathered momentum.

Ruu · Post by **Ruu** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:10 pm

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="461766"]
ANY time? What about after you die? I had thought that once you've died, judgement was eternal.

As for him forgiving you, forgiveness still comes with the strings attached of following all his rules ... notice, too, that the comandments about loyalty to god come before ones about how to treat other people. If you just asked him Stalin, or Saddam, or Castro probably wouldn't call off the firing squad, no, but maybe if you promise to toe the party line extremely closely, which is what God demands, too, for his forgiveness ....[/quote]

Well, you're right about that first part. Death would be the point of no return. That'd be the point where people who denied God meet him face to face and say "Oh, crap." That's because at that point, there's no way around it. They know God's the real thing because they're standing right in front of him, and he says "Get out of here, you never believed in me."

Now there is a bit of debate (and a lot of people are turned off of Christianity because there are debates, which are a freaking inevitability.) over things like infant mortality, the mentally retarded and people who never have a chance to hear about being saved. In order to answer that, you'd have to agree with me that the Bible is a reliable source for learning about God. Indeed, we'd have to agree that it is an infallible source, otherwise it would be useless altogether. So if you want to pursue the accountability issue, we'd have to start with the Bible.

And you're gravely misinformed on that last point, Struggle. God actually doesn't demand anything in return for being saved. That's the crazy part about it. Nothing. After you accept his forgiveness, that's it, you're saved. Period. God doesn't say, "Okay, the gift is free, but you gotta do such-and-such to keep it." It doesn't go away. God is that gracious. When you accept the salvation thing, he forgives you for everything you've ever done and everything you'll ever do. He doesn't have a checklist to keep track of how many times you screw up, and on the x time you lose your salvation. It doesn't work that way.

So then, what's the motivation to "be good"? Why not just accept the gift and then screw around all you want? Well, you can do that. You actually can. But, if you really believe in God and all that he's done, you'll be moved to follow God's will. If you give yourself over to God through salvation, He'll begin working in you, and it is a strong influence I can tell you.

/sermon

Mr.Shroom · Post by **Mr.Shroom** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:41 am

AH AHM T3H REZZERECTION AND T3H LIGHT

AzraeL · Post by **AzraeL** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:13 am

shroom, lay off the holy water

naval_aviator_2040 · Post by **naval_aviator_2040** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:50 am

BRUTHA'S 'N' SISTAZ', CAN I GET AN AAAAAAMEEN!

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:21 pm

So wait, if I accept God, yada yada, I DON'T have to follow the Ten Comandments and all that crap? I'm in the clear? He's not gonna go, "hey, you're worshiping other Gods and graven idols, you're back going to hell, you sinner"?

mikehendo · Post by **mikehendo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:09 pm

there you are wrong, Fuggle.. Accepting and asking for forgiveness is pretty much an acknowledgement that you wont worship other gods.. After all, if you believe in one true God, why would you?

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:13 pm

I was largely being sarcastic in questioning Ruu's answer, mike.

Because like I said - for real forgiveness and to remain in his grace, you can't exactly go about not following his rules (i.e., the Ten Commandments) and such.

Ruu · Post by **Ruu** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:47 pm

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="462395"]So wait, if I accept God, yada yada, I DON'T have to follow the Ten Comandments and all that crap? I'm in the clear? He's not gonna go, "hey, you're worshiping other Gods and graven idols, you're back going to hell, you sinner"?[/quote]

That's right, he won't. Sounds kind of crazy doesn't it?

If everyone had to follow God's rules to the letter, no one would be saved. It's impossible. In God's eyes, any sin of any nature will keep you from being saved. On top of that fact, we're born sinful, so we don't even get the chance to try from the start.

God knows this, and he doesn't expect us to do the impossible, so he decided to forgive us for free. Yeah, you could worship other gods and idols, and God wouldn't like it, but he wouldn't change his mind and send you to hell. He might tap you on the shoulder and ask "What the hell are you doing? I'm the ONE true God." It really is difficult for me to imagine someone who had truly accepted God worshipping other gods, since He really makes himself known to you. But the point is, when you accept him, he forgives you for everything, period. There's no "worst sin" you can do or a limit you can reach to piss Him off enough to send you to hell.

I guess there is one thing you have to actually do. Accept the damn gift.

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