Fat Grade

[Darkhan]

I'm fairly new to the forums, and I know some of you are going to hate me for this, but...
[quote="vixendrop";p="450433"]If by *digging* you mean simply reading the latest studies, the ones that weren't performed ONLY on overweight people who did get that way by overeating and leading a sedentary lifestyle, then yes. The studies that take into account the REASON the person gained (or can't lose) weight are the most accurate.[/quote]

You show me a study that says one thing, I'll show you a study that says another. Yes, there are many reasons as to why a person can be overweight, and yes, schools make no real effort to feed the children healthy foods (although a healthy option is required by law), and yes, companies market fattening foods to children, but this doesn't make the children or parents free of fault. Just because a person has a thyroid problem, doesn't mean their being overweight is more healthy than a person who's overweight because of overeating. Parents need to makes their kids go outside. Even if the kid sits on his butt while outside at first, (s)he'll eventually get bored and do something. I know this because every kid in my neighborhood was forced outside by their parents, so we started playing games. Hide-and-seek, tag, wrestling, army, knights, whatever. The fact of the matter is kids aren't getting enough exercise these days because the PE programs in school are crap. When the kids are "made" to run a half-mile, they can walk with no reprecussions (sp?). No, I'm not making this up, my mom is a teacher; she sees it everyday.

Although putting a kid's BMI on the report card seems harsh to some people, (no offense is meant by this) it's mostly the overweight people who are complaining. If you have a thyroid problem, this BMI report on the report card is one way of getting to the root of the problem faster. If a child gets a poor grade for his BMI, the parent can (not necessarily will, but can) change the kid's environment if (s)he cares about the child. As far as the unhealthy lunches at school go, there is no law saying a kid has to buy lunch. Parents can make lunches. It's called a sandwich. Meat and vegetables on bread, maybe a few (literally, 3 or 4) cookies as a snack, and a juice or bottle of water.

So, in response to the question actually posed by the first post, yes it's fair. It's fair because, while the children who are obviously overweight already know it, there are other children whose overweight-ness slowly creeps up on them (ie, by little brother. He used to be thin, but has gained much weight in the past 3 years). It is absolutelly fair because people who are underweight (either bulemic, anorexic, or just super-fast metabolism-ed) will also be getting a "bad" grade on their report card, thereby letting parents know if their child's health is at risk due to too much or too little body mass (and yes, i do know people who are too thin. My girlfriend is only 95 lbs, and it is very hard for her to gain weight).

People need to stop getting offended whenever anyone brings their weaknesses/faults (whether their choice or not) to light. Heck, if Dr. Phil's family, which has a huge history of overweightness and/or obeisity (sp?) can drop their weight down to non-health-endangering levels, so can anyone... if they really want to and try. There's no instant fix, this is a full-time comitment. Just like I couldn't solve my acne problem in a week, it took over a year and four different prescription medications (one of which had the possibility of causing liver problems if taken too long). Now i have to use a specific face wash every day, shower at night (right before bed, instead of in the morning, which i prefer), eat massively less extremely greasy foods, not eat much acne catylizing snacks (ie, chocolate and a few others), and try my hardest not to touch my face with my hands often (too many oils on the skin). If you really want to lose weight, expect similar forfeitures of things you love. Go buy Dr. Phil's Ultimate Weightloss Challenge. It's not easy to improve your life, but it's possible.

Sorry that was reeeeeally long winded, but i was trying to cover every base and still give an intelligent answer. Here's the short version: Just think of the BMI report as an early warning system for weight disorders and medical conditions.

[YH]

I'm just worried that BMIs will be yet another "SAT score" that kids will compete over, and make fun of one another over, or stress over.... these are kids, after... there are some things that should be treated seriously, yes. But kids seem to have a tendency to treat some things a bit too seriously.

[Darkhan]

Sorry, YH, but kids will always be made fun of. It's a fact of life.

[YH]

Fact of life, probably. But I'm still worried about introducing the issue of BMIs. It WILL be benefitial, actually, but there has to be some preventive measure, to teach kids not to view BMIs merely as a "Fat Grade".

[gravity]

A BMI is NOT a Fat Grade. It is a Body Mass Index, but it can't tell how much of that weight is fat and how much is muscle, so people that are heavily muscled will be severely overweight according to that test.

Muscles weighs a lot more than fat, remember that folks.

[Darkhan]

gravity, you just summed up the entire problemof this situation. If people would stop looking at this as a "Fat Grade," a lot of problems with it would be cleared up as well.

Your post was very insiteful, gravity. *Bakes you a cake*

[vixendrop]

BUT, how many *kids* are going to know, or care, that BMI doesn't indicate how *fat* someone is?

[Darkhan]

That's for the parents to explain to their children. The report card was never intended for the child. It's a tool to tell parents how their child is doing. This is why they're usually adressed to "The Parent or Gaurdian of..." The parents should explain to their children that in all reality, it's just a number. It's not who they are. If a parent can't teach that to a child, then the kid has bigger problems than his BMI.

[Deacon]

wiccanpie was the one who mentioned BMI. In the first link, no mention of BMI is made. In the second link, it requires registration, so....

[Smaointe]

[quote="Darkhan";p="450473"]If you have a thyroid problem, this BMI report on the report card is one way of getting to the root of the problem faster. [/quote]

This is a really good point. There may be parents out there who keep telling themselves that their kids are just "big boned", when really they have a medical problem that should be treated. Alternatively, it may make them realise that they feed their kids crappy food and don't encourage them to exercise, and they should change their lifestyle if they care about their children's long-term health. If little Jane is really overweight but hardly ever eats anything, it might set off some alarm bells if the parent has learnt that there could be medical causes for obesity.

The parents would have to be given information on the causes of obesity, the treatments available, dietary requirements for children (all the vitamin RDIs etc), nutrition information, recommended exercise etc. It probably wouldn't hurt to give them some information on obesity-related medical problems that they may be exposing themselves to if they are overweight themselves.

I also think it would be good for parents to have information on recognising the early warning signs that their children may have an eating disorder, and how to deal with that so that in a way that doesn't exacerbate the problem.

For me, the jury is out on this issue... I think it is VERY important to raise awareness about child obesity (and obesity in adults), but if something like this were to be brought in, it would have to be done with a lot of sensitivity and discretion.

[Catine]

[quote="Darkhan";p="450473"]

Although putting a kid's BMI on the report card seems harsh to some people, (no offense is meant by this) it's mostly the overweight people who are complaining. [/quote]

My BMI is right in the middle of the normal range, but I am still complaining.

I don't see this ever being useful to parents, but more of what YH said - one more thing for kids to be teased about and stress over.

Whoever said that schools should be serving healthier lunches and teaching kids about nutrition, I think they got it right. I believe that would be a lot more effective and less painful - not to mention less controversial.

[vixendrop]

As I've said before, I don't personally feel that the school has any place informing the parents about their child's BMI. Parents see their children everyday, they KNOW their health and size status. IF they don't (either don't care or refuse to acknowledge it for some odd reason, denial maybe?) then seeing it on a report card isn't going to open their eyes to the fact. Instead it's just another thing for children to stress over and worry about being picked on for.

[coyote blue]

I gained a lot of weight with my first child, I lost it all and then some. I just had another 6 months ago and I still have the "baby fat". I am one of the unlucky ones to have gained weight, and not imediatly take it off after the birth of my child. (who was almost 11 pounds) Now, is that my fault? I mean, my body isn't taking it off easily, regardless of what I eat and excersise. My body just requires time. Now, is it my baby's fault she was "chubby" when she was born?
There are some who gain weight from eating the wrong food and not doing anything physical. There are some who have been heavy their whole lives.
I say we are all made different, we don't all look the same, we are not all colored the same, we act differently, we sound differently... it is what makes us unique. Those who have been heavy all their lives and no matter what they do they can't seem to lose the weight.. it just means they are supposed to be like that. That is their body, how it was given to them.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe everyone should eat healthy and be healthy. But sometimes weight is just not an issue, it is the people who make it one who has never had a problem with it. I am just wondering if people will just accept the fact that everyone isn't going to be a size 0 or even a size 6. That is just the way we are. Stop blaming society and just accept everyone.
Sorry if I went off a little, or didn't make sense... just bugs me how the schools think they have the right to humiliate over weight children like that, even if it is to their parents. It isn't the school's job to tell kids what they should look like and how big they should be. school is for learning, not giving them low self esteem.

[Deacon]

"There are some who have been heavy their whole lives."

Yeah, and usually they've been eating white-bread fish stick sandwiches with a side of corn and potatoes and M&Ms for dinner their whole lives, too. I swear to GOD people need to remember that people aren't genetically obese. People aren't "born that way". There are rare cases of a disease causing those kinds of issues, but otherwise in the words of someone who went from fat-ass to flat-ass, "If they wire your moth shut...you will die thin!"

[coyote blue]

Actually, people can be born and genetically obese.
Science shows that genetics plays a role in obesity. Genes can directly cause obesity in disorders such as Bardet-Biedl syndrome and Prader-Willi syndrome. However genes do not always predict future health. Genes and behavior may both be needed for a person to be overweight. Studies are showing that the genes are not destiny but are still a significant factor in developing obesity. Obesity is characterized by an excessively high amount of body fat or adipose tissue. This condition is common, but the condition varies from individual to individual. At one end of the spectrum, a healthy weight can be attained by cutting down on certain foods, taking smaller portions, and embarking on a regimen of regular exercise. For individuals in this population, a moderate change in diet and exercise are the proper interventions because they work.
At the other end of the spectrum, there is another population of overweight people who do not respond as well to these interventions. Everyone knows someone who tries diligently to lose weight but who experiences limited success or loses weight only to gain it back over time. In fact, more than 80% of those who lose weight will gradually regain it unless a weight maintenance program is implemented over the long-term (2). What is different about these people compared to those who either stay thin or lose weight readily and keep it off with relatively minor lifestyle changes? One difference may be genetic risk factors that affect energy metabolism and result in an inborn susceptibility to gain weight. Genetic predisposition may not be health destiny, but studies indicate that inherited genetic variation is an important risk factor for obesity. Evidence from twin, adoption and family studies strongly suggests that biological relatives exhibit similarities in maintenance of body weight. Genetic factors also are beginning to be implicated in the degree of effectiveness of diet and physical activity interventions for weight reduction.
- Centers for Disease Control Office of Genomics and Disease Prevention and the Division of Nutrition and Physical Activity at CDC's National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion.

Obesity is determined by genetic, environmental and behavioural factors acting through the physiological mediators of energy intake and energy expenditure. Body weight is the archetypal polygenic trait, a quantitative phenotype that usually fails to display a Mendelian pattern of inheritance because it is influenced by many different loci. The concept that environmental factors operate on an underlying pool of genes that contribute to obesity susceptibility has important implications for our approach to the prevention and treatment of obesity. If some environmental variables manifest themselves only on certain genotypes, efforts to prevent obesity at a public health level can be focused on susceptible individuals. Appreciating the importance of genetic variation helps to dispel the notion that obesity represents an individual defect in behaviour with no biological basis, and provides a starting point for efforts to identify the genes involved.
- Prof.Stephen O'Rahilly, MD and I. Sadaf Farooqi, MD