Loosing faith with humanity, and this time it hits home.

Rileyrat · Post by **Rileyrat** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:30 am

It's a discusting story to me. I also don't understand why some people always seem to try and bring up some sort of argument in these threads while saying "Not that I agree with blah blah blah..." and then procced to make an argument for the other side they claim not to be part of. All I can figure is they are tryin to get a rise outta the people that are discusted by such things. Like it was stated earlier, the argument can be ended by simply realizing the fact that most people use the moral defenition of "humanity". The thing the majority of people believe seperates us from the animals. When we revert to a more animalistic behavior we lose this "humanity" and under these rules the truely don't qualify as humans.

Darkhan · Post by **Darkhan** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:32 pm

Well said, Rileyrat. I happen to not buy into that definition of human, but I really like the point you emphasized. And, being one of those who said "Not that I agree with blah blah blah...", I feel the need to clarify to you that my comment's main purpose was to say calling him inhuman is avoiding the problem, not fixing it or even understanding it. I (obviously) don't support what this guy did, nor do I think he should be spared the strictest of punishments; I'm mearly saying don't dismiss this guy as inhuman, treat him as an evil person, a bad human.

virulus · Post by **virulus** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:22 pm

coyote blue, I was not blaming you or saying you are a bad person. I was making a sweeping statement, sorry I offended.

What affects one affects all. There are many problems in this world that are not solveable. Violence is one. As long as there are wolves, there must be sheep dogs, and the wolves and sheepdogs will forever be killing each other. Someone must. My origional point was that humanity is a fallen race. There is evil in all and it tends to beat the good in us. We make choices based on self interest. There are wars and rumors of wars, as there have been forever. We cannot solve the worlds problems, all we can do is punish those who do evil in a way that deters others. We cannot say, "you might kill your child so we will take the child away" it has to be retro active. Otherwise you get into that really wierd movie with the kids who saw the future and they made arrests based on that.

I am not excusing any actions, I am not trying to flame or have an arguement, I am just sick of people HAVING faith in humanity. Humanity is going to disappoint. Just look at our gods (celebrities). Look at them and tell me they are the best we have.

elroy · Post by **elroy** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:20 pm

We make choices based on self interest

I don't think that is evil. It's pragmatic. It's what drives every animal, including humans. It's why I believe we're little more than smart animals, we still behave on the same instincts, we just have a fancy way of doing it.

naval_aviator_2040 · Post by **naval_aviator_2040** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:39 am

There was a very good fantasy book that had one idea in it that made me reaffirm my faith in humanity. I can't remember the name of the book or the author but I will always remember that idea. The basic context was that a man had his concience taken away from him and was asked to do an immoral act but he could not because, even without his concience, he had been doing good for so long that it was logical for him to keep doing so. He belived that doing good was ALWAYS in his long-term self interest and so, with an extraordinary willpower, he was able to resist the temptation to do the evil deed and thus triumphed over the "bad guy".

I wish that I could refer you guys to that book but I just can't remember it's title or the author but I believe that most people, if not all, have the potential to be as strong in our good deeds as this charachter and so my faith remains.

elroy · Post by **elroy** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:44 am

I dunno bout you, but the reason I do good is exactly the same as that guy in the book. It's only natural.

Jarp Habib · Post by **Jarp Habib** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:08 am

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="457971"]That's a rather blanket statement ... Manson didn't think about his action, windowmas? How about Oswald? McVeigh? Gein?[/quote]I contend that McVeigh knew very much well what he was doing, the entire time.

Ugh. Every time i hear a story like that, it pisses me off and saddens me to the core. Kits, I'm sorry you had to become personally involved in this

virulus · Post by **virulus** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:35 pm

Darkhan, when you say treat him as an evil human, what do you mean? Is he totally evil?

Naval, if you ever find the book, please let me know, it sounds like a good read

coyote blue · Post by **coyote blue** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:16 pm

virulus, I wasn't offended.

I hear the word "Inhumane" used on the news a lot. When people view acts that are wrong, or bad (killing, raping, etc) some people automatically call them monsters - nonhumans. Maybe society has taught the ones who believe that people who do wrong are monster, and are not like 'normal people'. I agree Naval, I believe a lot of people, if not most, who do wrong could of easily decided not to do it. I suppose it depends on whether the people actually care or not what they do to others.
Riley, I don't believe it has gotten too off topic. We send our condolences and prayers and wishes to the family and friends. But she also stated in the title losing faith in humanity. Maybe if there is still a wanting to go into it further, a new topic just for that discussion?

lifedeath · Post by **lifedeath** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:34 pm

i seriously couldn't read the article...just your prologue gave me mental punches...

This is awful...but seriously i don't find it out of this world. Crazy things happen...maybe it looks apsurd that he killed the childs because he hated his wife...but for him that looked resonable (remembers of Medea).

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