[guns] Help me choose a gun.

[Seir]

[quote="Deacon";p="458523"]People ask me all the time if I'm hiding a 10-gauge in my pant leg. I just smile and shake my head, usually with a little wink.[/quote]

Just don't let them know you're firing blanks.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[RadicalDreamer]

From what I hear from the weapons and ammo sections of the Hostile Intent forums, go to a firing range, and try out a couple. See which one's feel the most comfortable in your hand. Don't forget about revolvers, either. Simple and reliable.

I've always been partial to 1911s, myself.

[Teranfirbt]

I'm rather fond of my grandpa's Colt .45...
I also like heavier guns, not only for less recoil, but also for the fact that I find them easier to control.

[Martin Blank]

If you can handle a 1911, then more power to you. They're too big for me for practical use, which I suspect makes them far too big for Kits.

Oh, and don't ever let anyone tell you to shoot to disable. If you're threatened, you put two in the chest. If they're still a threat, you put one in the head. Practice that at the range by simply keeping the gun down until someone behind you gives you an auditory clue. At that point, lift, aim, and fire two shots (one second apart, based on range rules). Have the person giving the cue randomly provide a second cue after a few seconds that is your signal to put one more in the head. If you can do this at a range that allows rapid firing, or at least double-taps, then so much the better. The best is an opportunity to practice this in a tactical sense, where you have the opportunity to move and fire from alternate positions, such as kneeling and prone.

Remember, in a crisis situation, you will be no better than half as good as your best day. If you can keep those two shots consistently within six inches, for example, in a crisis situation your circle will probably be no tighter than twelve inches -- and that allows for a lot of error.

[KatFreak]

Martin Blank, you scare me...

[Seir]

Why would that be scary? That's a realistic approach to things.

[Nukinblackmage]

Even though the law says to shoot to incompacitate. But I'm willing to bet a jury would rule in your favor. Sides...chest shots are "incompacitating"...just...in a differnt way...

[Deacon]

[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="458575"]Even though the law says to shoot to incompacitate.[/quote]
What are you talking about?

[Jezebel]

I haven't actually shot a glock before, but I was quite fond of how the beretta felt in my hands kits. It's very easy to fire, especially for someone our size. I could barely even rack the .40 For practical purposes the only thing that really makes me consider getting the Glock over the beretta is the concern that in a crisis situation (read, 3 am and some motherfucker in my room) I won't be in the right frame of mind to remember to shut off the safety. Not having to worry about that would take a gigantic weight off my shoulders.

I would highly suggest following Martins advice and putting several hundred rounds through each before reaching a decision. What it comes down to in the end is what you feel most comfortable holding and firing. And dont get a firearm if you aren't going to be able to fire it/clean it on a regular basis. Won't do you much good for home safety if it fucks up when you try to use it after being in a drawer for three years.

Also, the CCW laws for Georgia are basically, if you breathing, you can get one. California makes it very difficult for the average joe blow to get one. These are the main criteria.

Any person under 21 years of age;
Any person who is a fugitive from justice or against whom proceedings are pending for any felony, forcible misdemeanor, or violation of Code Section 16-11-126, 16-11-127, or 16-11-128 until such time as the proceedings are adjudicated;
Any person who has committed a felony;
Any person who has committed a forcible misdemeanor and has not been free of all restraints and supervision for 5 years from the date of application;
Any person who was convicted in violation of Code Section 16-11-126, 16-11-127, or 16-11-128 and has not been free of all restraints and supervision for 3 years from the date of application;
Any individual who has been hospitalized as an inpatient in any mental hospital or alcohol or drug treatment center within five years of the date of his or her application. The Probate Judge may consider the reason for the hospitalization and decide whether to issue a permit or not;
Any person who has been convicted* of an offense arising out of the unlawful manufacture, distribution, possession, or use of a controlled substance or other dangerous drug.
* 'Convicted' means a plea of guilty, a finding of guilt by a court of competent jurisdiction, the acceptance of a plea of nolo contendere, or the affording of first offender treatment by a court of competent jurisdiction irrespective of the pendency or availability of an appeal or an application for collateral relief.

[Nukinblackmage]

At least in Texas the law is that if you have to fire upon someone you must fire to incapacitate at first. My dad has a concealed handgun licence and I've asked him about this several times.

[Deacon]

Can you find that for me? I've not seen it or heard of it myself. I mean, I can understand perhaps you putting different words on suggestions of "reasonable" force, but...

[NorthernComfort]

Obviously the law says not to shoot to kill, although I have a feeling that if Kits got into a situation that would require her to shoot at somebody, the jury wouldn't mind if she was shooting to kill. If that makes any sense.

Shoot to thrill.

[Martin Blank]

There are laws the define the authorized use of deadly force. Generally speaking, deadly force (force likely to cause death or great bodily harm) is not authorized for anything short of a forcible felony. You can use force to protect your belongings -- for example, someone trying to steal your car can be punched, kicked, etc -- but you cannot employ the use of deadly force -- no shooting at the person stealing your car. Even shooting at the tires in such a case would usually be considered deadly force, because the person may lose control of the vehicle and be injured.

Deadly force is allowed, as mentioned above, in the case of the commission of a forcible felony, or the case of reasonable belief that the commission forcible felony is imminent. It is also allowed to defend one's person, or to defend another person, against death or great bodily harm. The definition of "forcible felonies" varies by state, but Florida's definition includes "treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual." (Florida 776.08)

The most common gray area is probably protection of the home. If someone comes into the home and does not intend to deliver harm but instead is grabbing some trinkets or a VCR for a quick few bucks, then it may or may not be legal to use deadly force. If at all possible, the threat of deadly force should be used instead. Most knowledgable people will tell you that the best home-defense weapon is probably a pump-action shotgun (or at least one capable of pump-action). There is no scarier sound in the world than that one from behind you when you're in an unfamiliar place looking to commit a crime.

In any case, consult an attorney or law enforcement, and get it in writing. That may be a powerful bit of defense should you ever go to trial, because ignorance of the law is no defense, but if you've been told by someone who is sworn to uphold the law that your actions were legit, then you may find yourself free instead of in prison.

I'm not aware of any laws that provide a requirement to incapacitate a target. You might like to think you could do that instead of shooting to kill, but doing so is foolhardy at best, suicidal at worst. Shooting for the leg is shooting for a possibly moving target perhaps six inches across. Shooting for an arm is shooting for an almost certainly moving target perhaps four inches across. In both cases, full immobilization takes a minimum of two shots.

Shooting for the chest means shooting for a target 16-20 inches wide, with plenty of points that will stop an assailant in one shot, and with a double-tap, you have two chances to do so. If the assailant is stupid enough to keep moving in a threatening manner, your target is a slowly moving one six to eight inches across, and barring a shot that goes through the mouth horizontally, you will stop him at that point. Remember, it's better to be alive to defend yourself at trial than dead and rotting underground.

Always shoot to kill.

[Deacon]

Such laws do vary by state enough to be significant. For instance, here in Texas you are authorized to use deadly force on anyone who is trespassing on your property after sundown. In other words, if you wake up at night and hear someone trying to hotwire your car in the garage, or if they're in the living room, or if they're on the lawn, or if they're in your bedroom, etc, their lives are potentially forfeit.

A case that occurred recently (<1 year ago) was here in San Antonio where a guy was on his used car lot in the office working late, some hoods hopped the fence and tried to break into the office allegedly to steal whatever they found, as chances were they were not looking to hurt the guy. They probably thought nobody was there. However, when they snuck into the office they surprised the dude at his desk, under which he had some sort of firearm (I think it was a handgun). He pulled it and killed one or both of the guys (kinda fuzzy now). The thugs' families wanted all kinds of murder charges pressed, but he was defending himself and could've shot them in the parking lot before they ever reached the office and been well within his legal rights.

I think the law was originally written to give strong leeway to ranchers in dealing with rustlers and such, and there's no real impetus to change it, since everyone likes the idea of knowing that you can defend yourself and your family without having to face criminal charges like the katana guy in the UK did.

[Kits]

The main reason I want the gun is that I work Night Audit in Atlanta, GA. Just a few months ago at a hotel a few exits north [closer to Downtown], A girl was robbed, and forced to strip naked and was tied up, at gunpoint. Last year, in downtown, a girl working night audit was robbed, then set on fire. She died. I work a dangerous job, and if someone were to try and rob me, I'd have no problems putting two in their chest, and if the cops were to look at it, I highly doubt they'd blame me.

I've put a few hundred rounds [range] ammo through both of the guns I've mentioned. It was actually a 92FS Beretta after all that I was thinking of. I was thinking of the wrong gun this morning [heh, 8 hours of work makes one forgetful]. I can fairly accurately put some through the chest, but with head shots I'm about 50/50, maybe 5 out of 10 actually hitting the head. Now if I take my time and aim, I can hit dead center, but I'm talking about drawing and firing [1 per second].

I will definately try what you're talking about, Martin. Usually Nick or Colin are with me, I'll get one of them to tap me on the shoulder. I usually shoot from about 5 yards, because that's the maximum distance at the Hotel I'd have to shoot someone. It'd most likely be closer.

I think I've decided on a 92FS Beretta. It feels better, and it can be modified for left handed use. The gun guy at Nick's pawn shop can do modifications, and will do so cheaply/free.