Fatties beware: your nuts are in danger!

[CyberEd]

[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]First, simmer down Virulus. If your friend is a contributing member of society, and other than his lack of eyesight, then no, I would recommend his extermination, nor sterilization. My program would only deal with those who are too screwed up to be useful.[/quote]
and how would you decide who's useful ? or better yet, WHEN would you decide a person is useful ? how would you be able to ensure that a "unuseful" man wouldn't give birth to a "useful" member of society ?
how ? unless you give them a chance ?
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"] Secondly, people who do evil by choice deserve punishment. This program is not punishment. Its not good for those who are subject to it, I will admit, but its not punishing them.[/quote]
if tomorrow someone decided I shouldn't breed I'd simply see that as a punishment. if it's not punishment it's sheer abuse...
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Now, CyberEd, last time I checked, humanity is falls under the animal kingdom, thus making us animals. Yes, we are advanced and superior to all other animals, but we are still animals. [/quote]
then what is it that makes us superior ? the mere use of tools ? what is it that differentiate us ?
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Yes, people are starving, AIDS is killing some people, but neither is working as fast as needed. And neither is selective enough. They kill the useful and useless. If we got rid of enough of the useless, it would be easier to feed the useful.
[/quote]whoa wait just a second... do you even understand the concept of natural selection ? IT IS NOT SELECTIVE ENOUGH ?
you must be kidding me...
so now you want to play god and decide which trait is better for the races survival ?!
if you asked the first humanoid animals they'd say the humans are not useful, their walking on two feet drags society down, they can't climb trees fast enough... they should all be eliminated....
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Yes, I am psychology student. I dont expect people to be happy with this program if its starts to personally effect them, because no one wants anything bad to happen to them. The "cleaners" as you put it would be people who are carefully screened and trained, and would be monitored and have short careers. The board would be made up of former "cleaners" and people who see the longterm, not the short term.
As far as what humanity would look like, thats irrevelant. I wouldnt select on the basis of appearance, race, religion, sexual orientation, things like that, because they are not important. Thats what seperates me from Hitler. Now, I would not be happy if I got selected for this progam. In fact, I would be rather upset, and fight back. I would expect the same out of any one else. Steps can be taken to deal with that though. Furthermore, abuse in the system might happen, which is why the board would have to be carefully selected and public.[/quote]
what I meant to ask what humanity would look like MENTALLY. how would your family operate if, lets say, they find out you are a crappy son. an unuseful one ?

[Deacon]

First, what Blaze said. More specifically...

[quote="coyote blue";p="473498"]Only reason I don't want molesters and rapists being able to have children is because they may impregnate a victim...[/quote]
Tha'st still statistically quite rare, unless you include "soft rape" (made-up term), that is where a girl decides later that it was a mistake to have sex with the guy, and she wasn't really that into it, and she might've even said no at first, but then relented anyway, so she files rape charges.

[quote="AzraeL";p="473557"]repeated offenders get mandatory vasectomies. that would stop mcrime. i mean stop. dead in its tracks.[/quote]
And out of curiosity, by what reasoning do you conclude that it would have any impact on crime?

[dreamriver]

Ok, so apparently no one in this thread actually read all the way through the article, nor did they take any time to research this topic.

This article was a hoax, guys. A fake. A potshot at the sensationalist media that pervades our society, and a chance to make a lot of people look really, really stupid. Of course, it also brought out some of the more disturbing opinions that members of our society hold about eugenics.

Check here and here.

Geez, people. Do your research before spontaneously combusting.

[Towergirl]

Wow... looks like you ended this conversation!

I thought some of the hypotheticals were quite interesting, though some of the possibilities and opinions were also quite disturbing. In the interest of adding a rebuttal quoted from someone far better known than I:

"What a pity that [he] did not stab that vile creature, when he had the chance!"
"Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded... Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began so. With Pity."
...
"He deserves death."
"Deserves it, I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that [the creature] can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with [its] fate. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of [his] may rule the fate of many - yours not least."

[CyberEd]

Towergirl, where's that quote from ?
dreamriver, you'd notice this discussion left the article a mile ago it became over eugenics in general...

[dreamriver]

Unbeliever! How is it that thou dost not knoweth the sacred text of the divine Tolkien?

CyberEd, the quote's from Lord of the Rings. And I know the thread left the actual article a while ago, but the knowledge that this is not actually happening is still an important point when discussing the issue of eugenics.

And lovely quote, Towergirl. I hug in your general direction.

[edge]

I can't help but wonder if this is the same story that this discussion is about....

[YH]

Damn, I totally got pwned.

I still have my own beliefs, of course, but I also agree with the objective of the fake news. Waaay too much scientific stuff thrown around without being researched on. Will need to be more careful next time.

[Mr. Evil]

[quote="CyberEd";p="473713"][quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]First, simmer down Virulus. If your friend is a contributing member of society, and other than his lack of eyesight, then no, I would recommend his extermination, nor sterilization. My program would only deal with those who are too screwed up to be useful.[/quote]
and how would you decide who's useful ? or better yet, WHEN would you decide a person is useful ? how would you be able to ensure that a "unuseful" man wouldn't give birth to a "useful" member of society ?
how ? unless you give them a chance ?
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"] Secondly, people who do evil by choice deserve punishment. This program is not punishment. Its not good for those who are subject to it, I will admit, but its not punishing them.[/quote]
if tomorrow someone decided I shouldn't breed I'd simply see that as a punishment. if it's not punishment it's sheer abuse...
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Now, CyberEd, last time I checked, humanity is falls under the animal kingdom, thus making us animals. Yes, we are advanced and superior to all other animals, but we are still animals. [/quote]
then what is it that makes us superior ? the mere use of tools ? what is it that differentiate us ?
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Yes, people are starving, AIDS is killing some people, but neither is working as fast as needed. And neither is selective enough. They kill the useful and useless. If we got rid of enough of the useless, it would be easier to feed the useful.
[/quote]whoa wait just a second... do you even understand the concept of natural selection ? IT IS NOT SELECTIVE ENOUGH ?
you must be kidding me...
so now you want to play god and decide which trait is better for the races survival ?!
if you asked the first humanoid animals they'd say the humans are not useful, their walking on two feet drags society down, they can't climb trees fast enough... they should all be eliminated....
[quote="Mr. Evil";p="473279"]Yes, I am psychology student. I dont expect people to be happy with this program if its starts to personally effect them, because no one wants anything bad to happen to them. The "cleaners" as you put it would be people who are carefully screened and trained, and would be monitored and have short careers. The board would be made up of former "cleaners" and people who see the longterm, not the short term.
As far as what humanity would look like, thats irrevelant. I wouldnt select on the basis of appearance, race, religion, sexual orientation, things like that, because they are not important. Thats what seperates me from Hitler. Now, I would not be happy if I got selected for this progam. In fact, I would be rather upset, and fight back. I would expect the same out of any one else. Steps can be taken to deal with that though. Furthermore, abuse in the system might happen, which is why the board would have to be carefully selected and public.[/quote]
what I meant to ask what humanity would look like MENTALLY. how would your family operate if, lets say, they find out you are a crappy son. an unuseful one ?[/quote]

Usefullness can determined by intelligence, education, ambition, among other things. One thing is certain though; some one who has an IQ around 50 will never truely be useful, as society will be paying out more to take care of them long run than they will be contributing. As far as a useless person giving birth to a useful person, its possible. Its more likely though that useful person will give birth to useful children, and that useless people will give rise to useless people.

I agree that it might be abuse to prevent people to breed, but its not punishment, as they have done nothing wrong.

Humanity is superior due to our adaptive nature, our intelligence, and the fact that we are the dominate form of life on this planet.

I do understand the concept of natural selection. Its not happening to us any more though. Natural selection doesnt take into consideration medical advancements, it doesnt take into consideration the fact that we shelter the weak and the sick, which is something that doesnt happen often in nature. So yes, we need to play God. It wouldnt be the first time, as we play God every time we stop some one from dying. Also, if you would have asked the first humaniods if walking on two feet is useful, they probably would have said yes. By beind bipedal, they would have been effectively taller, allowing them to see preditors farther away.

The mental landscape of people would adapt to the program. Hell, it wouldnt be the first of its type. In many cultures, it was standard practice to kill or adandon infants who were not up to a standard. Families would operate and go on. The first generation under the program would have issues, as might the second, but eventually people would accept and deal. People are not only adaptive, but as a whole sheep, and will accept what they need to accept, especially if they are benefitting from it.

[Gouf_Custom]

You make me sad.

[Kits]

[quote="Blaze";p="472447"]

Blaze, maybe they should perform vasectomies for women, too?

[/quote]

It's called tube tying, and yes, they should offer it.

Actually tube tying is reversable. The one you want is Hysterectomy [sp?]. Full out removal of the ovaries. Tube tying can be very dangerous because a woman could get a tubal pregnancy and die from it.

Of course, if a woman WANTS a freaking hysterectomy they'd better hope they have some sort of obscure health problem. I wonder if they'd hysterectomize me because I have bad eyesight and I'm Bipolar. I really wish that they would.

[AzraeL]

You're thinking of castration. FAR different thing.

your right. my bad. all this talk of vasectomies muddled my mind.

[Kits]

Except I could still have sex. Don't be a smartass, I was just clarifying something. Jesus, assholes are why I stay out of PACE.

[Blaze]

Yeah, but doesn't a hysterectomy lower your hormonal levels and thereby your DESIRE to have sex?

[mikehendo]

I dunno Blaze, many women who have gone through menopause report a hightened sex drive, and that is a similar decrease in hormone levels. It all depends on the woman, I guess.