I've always had the idea of marriage in my mind. When I was younger it was just because that's what grownups do, they get a job, get married, have kids, retire, and then die. But as I got older and realized exactly what being married meant, I decided for myself that it was something I wanted. I've always been a bit of a serial monogamist, so it's only logical that when I find the one that makes me never want another that we would get married at some point in time.
I don't really see a whole lot of difference between being married and simply spending the rest of your life with someone. But I do think that some form of commitment promise should be given at one point. As long as all parties involved are honest with one another from the start, whatever floats your boat I guess. I came close before, with a person that I really wanted it to happen with, and if things wouldn't have been messed up along the way we would have been married.
Children, on the other hand, are something that I've never wanted. I always assumed that having children was a requirement, and when I finally realized that they were entirely optional, I knew that I wouldn't want that to happen. Explaining why is kind of difficult. I just don't want them. Part of the reason may be that I saw what kind of a mother my mother was, and I don't want that history to repeat itself. Another part of it is that when/if I do eventually get married, I want to devote myself to that person 100%. I dont want to split myself between a kid for 18 years plus, and a husband for the rest of my life.
I make this painfully obvious to just about everyone, but some people are still surprised to find out that I actually am serious. I don't really consider this a selfish act, because you can't really be selfish by not bringing a child into this world, being selfish implies that somebody elses wellbeing is taken into consideration, so when it's purely my own it kind of negates that.
Marriage and children: Why?
[quote="Fixer";p="492801"]My observation on the matter that women who enjoy other people's children but have no desire (or actually fear) having children of their own usually comes from feeling like they already have near-overwhelming responsibilities. Such women want, deeply, for children to be raised healthy, happy, and loved but fear that their own busy, chaotic and/or hectic lives are unfit for raising a child. Rather than adding another badly-raised child to the world, such women decide to contribute their maternal instincts towards assisting other parents in the raising of their children.[/quote]
Funny thing is, I'm a guy, and I don't want to have children for similar reasons.
I plan on having a career in archaeology, and I actually hope to be moving around a lot. If my significant other and myself get married - she wants to travel as well - ideally we'll be moving every few years. Her thing is international politics and human rights, mine is digging up stuff all over the world.
I don't want to give up that lifestyle if it's what I decide I truly want, and I don't want to bring a kid into the world if that's the kind of life I'm going to give him or her. It'll be interesting for the kid going all over the world, but I know that moving is a pain in the ass when you're growing up, and I have no idea how much bigger a pain moving overseas would be for a child.
Half of it is selfish, I know - that I don't want to compromise my lifestyle - and the other half I feel is pretty considerate - that I won't have kids if I can't give them the kind of life I feel they're entitled to.
Funny thing is, I'm a guy, and I don't want to have children for similar reasons.
I plan on having a career in archaeology, and I actually hope to be moving around a lot. If my significant other and myself get married - she wants to travel as well - ideally we'll be moving every few years. Her thing is international politics and human rights, mine is digging up stuff all over the world.
I don't want to give up that lifestyle if it's what I decide I truly want, and I don't want to bring a kid into the world if that's the kind of life I'm going to give him or her. It'll be interesting for the kid going all over the world, but I know that moving is a pain in the ass when you're growing up, and I have no idea how much bigger a pain moving overseas would be for a child.
Half of it is selfish, I know - that I don't want to compromise my lifestyle - and the other half I feel is pretty considerate - that I won't have kids if I can't give them the kind of life I feel they're entitled to.
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"I'll barracks you to the south!"
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daemon princess
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Re: Marriage and children: Why?
Now that was an interesting thread to read through. Surprisngly popular, too. I can't reply to everything, but I have read it letter by letter.
I was still not getting it until I got to Lizzie's post. The answer seems to be "I just like the feeling of it," which is a perfectly good reason. I suppose it may be the same as if I asked "Why do you want to eat that flavour of ice cream that I don't enjoy myself?" As YH pointed out, it is partly spiritual. As it is my perspective that spirituality is either wholely or largely chemically based, it's hardly fair of me to ask "Why is your pituitary gland more active than mine?"
I still just can't understand what one might gain from commitment. I am myself in love at the moment, and we'll have been together two years come this July. But why should I care if I'm still in love this time next year? Is your partner your only source of happiness? If you break up, even if there's no other people to go out with, can't you pick up a book? Go out? Start a hobby?
I must say I'm rather surprised by how defensive some people seem to be about this. People appear to be telling me I'm "wrong" or that they disagree with me. Wouldn't I need to make a statement in order to be wrong? How can one disagree with a question?
I'm also a little wary of some of the reasons people give. Love? Trust? Security? If that's what you want from your partner and you're not getting them now, do you really believe they'll suddenly appear if you marry them? That sounds to me like a terribly unrealistic and unhealthy reason to be getting married, as Makh and Fuggle have pointed out.
[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]A complete end to the horrible, singles scene [unless you actually like overpriced drinks, deafening music, and possible STDs][/quote]You can only start dating someone if you go somewhere and get drunk? Why are you sleeping with anyone without using protection and checking to make sure they're free of STD's?
[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]that 50% divorce rate also equals a 50% lifetime partner rate.[/quote]Which is also a problem, even if you do want to get married. I have seen many, many couples (my parents spring to mind) that really should have divorced but didn't because they have it in their heads that they're really not supposed to, or they don't want to hurt the kids, or it signifies failure and so on. The 50% divorce rates only shows those who actually went ahead with the divorce. It doesn't even reflect those who are separated.[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]Emotional fulfillment of nurturing someone and watching them grow [if you don't understand this, then you are a VERY SELFISH PERSON and have NEVER HAD A POSITIVE IMPACT on someone you know, and NEVER been proud of someone][/quote]You seem to have just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next. If I need children in order to take care of someone and positively impact them, then how do I have to be a selfish person to not understand it?[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]Your kids are only disgusting if you are a bad parent
Your kids are only annoying if you are a bad parent
Your kids (except for the very young) only "Scream" if you are a bad parent.[/quote]HUH? If you're a good parent, they just pop out of the womb toilet trained, quiet and independent? Sorry that I'm picking on you, hun, it was just that a lot of those things you said didn't seem to make sense to me.
[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]
Strange. I know several married couples who don't mind if their partner has sex with someone else as long as they're back home with their partner in time for bed.[/quote]So why do they get married?[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]
uh...where'd you get 50%? Cite your sources damnit. [/quote]Gah! Sorry, I should know better than to be so USA-centric. The divorce rate refers to the one in the US, which is common knowledge among Americans, so I suppose I forgot that it isn't the same everywhere else. It probably isn't the same in your country, whichever one that happens to be. You can see a little about it here.[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]So...about 7 years of less sleep, free time, and sex isn't worth it to know that you brought another life into the world?[/quote]Goodness gracious, I can't believe I didn't list that con! Going without sleep and free time is possibly something I can handle, but it would probably put me in therapy having to deal with the guilt of having brought another life into the world.[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]Well, I guess you'll never have any pets or plants. Since, you know, you need to care for plants and take care of animals and let them out to play and walk them.[/quote]You are taking the mick, aren't you?[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="492594"]Oh, also, another atrocious con to marriage ( which I recall was mentioned in another thread) is that it gives someone else a legal claim to your genitalia.[/quote]That law was changed in the 80's, mostly due to a huge campaign by Cosmopolitan magazine against it. The whole "A husband can't rape his wife because he can't steal what he already owns," thing does not fly in court anymore and hasn't for a good 15 years. At least not in any industrialized country I know of.[quote="Fixer";p="492801"]My observation on the matter that women who enjoy other people's children but have no desire (or actually fear) having children of their own usually comes from feeling like they already have near-overwhelming responsibilities...[and so on][/quote]What, males don't have anything else in their life to do besides taking care of kids?[quote="SwngChef";p="492853"]I'm a gamer, talk about a bad father example
)[/quote]Not true at all. The positive effects of non-violent video games for children over 7, as long as they aren't doing too much of it are showing up in all sorts of studies. If I had a kid, I'd share many of my video games with it.[quote="Jezebel";p="492948"]Another part of it is that when/if I do eventually get married, I want to devote myself to that person 100%. I dont want to split myself between a kid for 18 years plus, and a husband for the rest of my life. [/quote]This is an excellent point. I love taking my man out to dinner, getting him presents, taking him on surprise trips to London or Copenhagen or somewhere (though they're hardly a surprise anymore since I do it too much). If I had a kid, I don't think I could do those things. We'd be spending so much time and money on the kid, how much would be left over for me to spend on him?[quote="Keaton";p="492987"]It'll be interesting for the kid going all over the world, but I know that moving is a pain in the ass when you're growing up, and I have no idea how much bigger a pain moving overseas would be for a child.[/quote]Will you be my dad?
I was still not getting it until I got to Lizzie's post. The answer seems to be "I just like the feeling of it," which is a perfectly good reason. I suppose it may be the same as if I asked "Why do you want to eat that flavour of ice cream that I don't enjoy myself?" As YH pointed out, it is partly spiritual. As it is my perspective that spirituality is either wholely or largely chemically based, it's hardly fair of me to ask "Why is your pituitary gland more active than mine?"
I still just can't understand what one might gain from commitment. I am myself in love at the moment, and we'll have been together two years come this July. But why should I care if I'm still in love this time next year? Is your partner your only source of happiness? If you break up, even if there's no other people to go out with, can't you pick up a book? Go out? Start a hobby?
I must say I'm rather surprised by how defensive some people seem to be about this. People appear to be telling me I'm "wrong" or that they disagree with me. Wouldn't I need to make a statement in order to be wrong? How can one disagree with a question?
I'm also a little wary of some of the reasons people give. Love? Trust? Security? If that's what you want from your partner and you're not getting them now, do you really believe they'll suddenly appear if you marry them? That sounds to me like a terribly unrealistic and unhealthy reason to be getting married, as Makh and Fuggle have pointed out.
[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]A complete end to the horrible, singles scene [unless you actually like overpriced drinks, deafening music, and possible STDs][/quote]You can only start dating someone if you go somewhere and get drunk? Why are you sleeping with anyone without using protection and checking to make sure they're free of STD's?
[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]that 50% divorce rate also equals a 50% lifetime partner rate.[/quote]Which is also a problem, even if you do want to get married. I have seen many, many couples (my parents spring to mind) that really should have divorced but didn't because they have it in their heads that they're really not supposed to, or they don't want to hurt the kids, or it signifies failure and so on. The 50% divorce rates only shows those who actually went ahead with the divorce. It doesn't even reflect those who are separated.[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]Emotional fulfillment of nurturing someone and watching them grow [if you don't understand this, then you are a VERY SELFISH PERSON and have NEVER HAD A POSITIVE IMPACT on someone you know, and NEVER been proud of someone][/quote]You seem to have just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next. If I need children in order to take care of someone and positively impact them, then how do I have to be a selfish person to not understand it?[quote="EznocDOTcom";p="492198"]Your kids are only disgusting if you are a bad parent
Your kids are only annoying if you are a bad parent
Your kids (except for the very young) only "Scream" if you are a bad parent.[/quote]HUH? If you're a good parent, they just pop out of the womb toilet trained, quiet and independent? Sorry that I'm picking on you, hun, it was just that a lot of those things you said didn't seem to make sense to me.
[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]
Strange. I know several married couples who don't mind if their partner has sex with someone else as long as they're back home with their partner in time for bed.[/quote]So why do they get married?[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]
uh...where'd you get 50%? Cite your sources damnit. [/quote]Gah! Sorry, I should know better than to be so USA-centric. The divorce rate refers to the one in the US, which is common knowledge among Americans, so I suppose I forgot that it isn't the same everywhere else. It probably isn't the same in your country, whichever one that happens to be. You can see a little about it here.[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]So...about 7 years of less sleep, free time, and sex isn't worth it to know that you brought another life into the world?[/quote]Goodness gracious, I can't believe I didn't list that con! Going without sleep and free time is possibly something I can handle, but it would probably put me in therapy having to deal with the guilt of having brought another life into the world.[quote="Nukinblackmage";p="492356"]Well, I guess you'll never have any pets or plants. Since, you know, you need to care for plants and take care of animals and let them out to play and walk them.[/quote]You are taking the mick, aren't you?[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="492594"]Oh, also, another atrocious con to marriage ( which I recall was mentioned in another thread) is that it gives someone else a legal claim to your genitalia.[/quote]That law was changed in the 80's, mostly due to a huge campaign by Cosmopolitan magazine against it. The whole "A husband can't rape his wife because he can't steal what he already owns," thing does not fly in court anymore and hasn't for a good 15 years. At least not in any industrialized country I know of.[quote="Fixer";p="492801"]My observation on the matter that women who enjoy other people's children but have no desire (or actually fear) having children of their own usually comes from feeling like they already have near-overwhelming responsibilities...[and so on][/quote]What, males don't have anything else in their life to do besides taking care of kids?[quote="SwngChef";p="492853"]I'm a gamer, talk about a bad father example
)[/quote]Not true at all. The positive effects of non-violent video games for children over 7, as long as they aren't doing too much of it are showing up in all sorts of studies. If I had a kid, I'd share many of my video games with it.[quote="Jezebel";p="492948"]Another part of it is that when/if I do eventually get married, I want to devote myself to that person 100%. I dont want to split myself between a kid for 18 years plus, and a husband for the rest of my life. [/quote]This is an excellent point. I love taking my man out to dinner, getting him presents, taking him on surprise trips to London or Copenhagen or somewhere (though they're hardly a surprise anymore since I do it too much). If I had a kid, I don't think I could do those things. We'd be spending so much time and money on the kid, how much would be left over for me to spend on him?[quote="Keaton";p="492987"]It'll be interesting for the kid going all over the world, but I know that moving is a pain in the ass when you're growing up, and I have no idea how much bigger a pain moving overseas would be for a child.[/quote]Will you be my dad?
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sneaky ninja
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StruckingFuggle
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And so are kittens, which are cute, whereas babies are ugly, vomity, sleep-stealing things that you can't litter-train for YEARS instead of right away.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
I've got to agree with Terrene - they're very cuddly and unlike dogs and cats they'll cuddle back.
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~rlnedm/p ... edward.jpg
That's my nephew Edward, he's sooooo sweet. He's making my girlfriend dangerously broody, but we've accepted it's a few years before we'll have kids - we need jobs and a house first
.
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~rlnedm/p ... edward.jpg
That's my nephew Edward, he's sooooo sweet. He's making my girlfriend dangerously broody, but we've accepted it's a few years before we'll have kids - we need jobs and a house first
.Zapper - *zappp*
zap verb (zapped, zapping) (slang) 1 attack or destroy something forcefully.
2 change quickly from one section of a videotape etc. to another.
zap verb (zapped, zapping) (slang) 1 attack or destroy something forcefully.
2 change quickly from one section of a videotape etc. to another.
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vixendrop
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My cats are starting to freak out about our baby coming soon (my midwife thinks in the next couple weeks... I'm hoping she's wrong and it's at least another month!)... especially my oldest one (though he's only 2 1/2)... he was laying on my belly the other day and got kicked... he freaked out! He keeps sniffing around the baby stuff and acting weird... he knows something is happening, but I don't think he can figure it out yet.
And my cats snuggle me back too. They're so soft and furry... I love it. But nothing beats a baby snuggle!
And my cats snuggle me back too. They're so soft and furry... I love it. But nothing beats a baby snuggle!
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[quote="Keaton";p="492987"][quote="Fixer";p="492801"]My observation on the matter that women who enjoy other people's children but have no desire (or actually fear) having children of their own usually comes from feeling like they already have near-overwhelming responsibilities. Such women want, deeply, for children to be raised healthy, happy, and loved but fear that their own busy, chaotic and/or hectic lives are unfit for raising a child. Rather than adding another badly-raised child to the world, such women decide to contribute their maternal instincts towards assisting other parents in the raising of their children.[/quote]
Funny thing is, I'm a guy, and I don't want to have children for similar reasons.[/quote]
Yeah, I was responding to someone's question about my observations about why women who like kids but don't want their own probably don't want them. I recognize there are men out there who do the same. It is a matter of choice. Being a parent doesn't fit with everyone's lifestyle. Those who can't fit in the responsibilities of raising a child should not feel obligated to do so. It isn't like there aren't enough kids around to raise.
Funny thing is, I'm a guy, and I don't want to have children for similar reasons.[/quote]
Yeah, I was responding to someone's question about my observations about why women who like kids but don't want their own probably don't want them. I recognize there are men out there who do the same. It is a matter of choice. Being a parent doesn't fit with everyone's lifestyle. Those who can't fit in the responsibilities of raising a child should not feel obligated to do so. It isn't like there aren't enough kids around to raise.
I don't care who's right, who's wrong, or what you meant to say. Only thing I care about is the Truth. If you have it, good, share it. If not, find it. If you want to argue, do it with someone else.
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