Atheism a religion?

[jimkatai]

I was having a discussion with someone who is atheist, debating on whether or not Atheism was, in and of itself, a religion. My stance was that Atheism believes in no god but, this belief in no god, since it is a "belief" makes Atheism a religion. The core of the conversation was that my friend believed that if Atheism was at the core of society's way of thinking, then the world would be a better place, because of the religious taboos and the fanaticism that religion creates. He also states that religion is one of the causes of crime in our society.

My belief is that an atheistic society would create the same problems a religiuosly domiant society would, because it holds onto an ideal and people that are passionate enough to support that ideal, no matter the cause. Also, concerning the retaliatory groups that rebel against taboos, they would still exist in an atheistic society, because, even though Atheism does not have a moral code, our social taboos are an instinct of mankind and is only influenced, not controlled, by religion. Therefore, in an atheistic society, either the morals of that society would develop independently or would be inderectly influenced by the idea that man knows what is best for mankind, using science as a guide. This would create the same rebellion that creates crime that's motivator can be loosely tied to the religious culture they would inhabit otherwise.

So, anyways, my question is, when it comes to the effect it has on a society, does Atheism play the role as a religion or something different?

[Blaze]

We are NOT starting this again.

[Spongiform]

Atheism is not a religion. It is, however, a "belief system".

A totally atheist world would have the same problems as a religious one like we have, but it would not be much better or worse. There are people of all religious affiliations, or lack thereof, who are just psycho, and will use anything they can to try to justify their violence or promotion of violence.

The issue of atheism not having a system of absolute punishment in the afterlife is often misunderstood. Because you will not have to face the consequences of your actions forever after you die, a lot more stress is put on acting responsibly during your short span on Earth. There is also no system of forgiveness. If you kill someone, you will have to live with that guilt your whole life. The only source of forgiveness is the victim, or if he/she is no longer capable of forgiving you, the people who were close to him. You can't appeal to Big Daddy to take your sins away.

If you "rebel" against this "moral code" in a way that harms people, like shooting a cop or selling crack cocaine, sure it might provide the same temptation, I guess, but it doesn't change the fact that you are hurting people, and it should have been drilled into the person's head since infancy that hurting people is WRONG. Not because God said so, not because you'll have to suffer after you die an indefinite amount of time from now (Maybe 80 years) or because you'll be reborn as a cricket, not because society will look down on you. Because it's wrong and you'll feel like shit about it.

because it holds onto an ideal and people that are passionate enough to support that ideal, no matter the cause.

Which ideal is that? That there is no god? That people should be decent to each other?

As for the first one, I have never met an evangelical atheist. The one atheist I've met who absolutely insists that he is right and there is no god, still does not try to inflict his views on other people. He just gets defensive when others try to convince him of theirs. I am not saying that evangelism would not exist at all, since I know that one of the strongest instints in humans, especially aggressive men, is the one that tells you to try to make everyone else think the way you do. But if everyone within the society did not believe in any gods, then there wouldn't be much to evangelize about.

The second option also doesn't really seem to apply very strongly to me. Religious violence is virtually always against other religions, and is about the difference in their values, or more specifically, their sets of morals. Since the most widely accepted set of morals for atheists mostly involves being nice to other people, it is very difficult to kill someone over their belief system when it is violating your own to do so.

To answer your final question, Atheism does act somewhat like a religion, especially since it shares the quality religions tend to have of being incompatible with each other (You can't be a member of more than one.) It is not a religion, though. It is a belief system, which means just about exactly the same thing but the term is more widely encompassing.

[Melk Man]

Oh yes we are.

As to whether it is a belief or not depends entirely on how you define it. The first two applicable definition on dictionary.com,

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

give conflicting answers. Under #1 it isn't, but under #2 its arguable. Personally I believe that atheism probably definitionally is but agnosticism definitionally isn't. As to whether an atheistic society would have less crime... I don't see why not, could someone explain the theory behind this?

[Blaze]

No. We have been over it 47 thousand times. It's dead. Done. Leave. It. Alone.

[Deacon]

Belief, technically, is the "Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something". So yeah, Spongiform was right.

[quote="Spongiform";p="553386"]Atheism is not a religion. It is, however, a "belief system".[/quote]

Posted Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:00 pm:

What's kind of interesting is that "religion" has a couple definitions that could apply to atheism:

# A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. (in this case saying that spirituality is all bogus)
# A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. (certainly applicable)

[Killer-Rabbit]

Atheism is not a religion nor is it a belief system. It is a belief. Only one. And that, as we all know, is the belief that there is no God(s). It implies nothing about any of their other beliefs.

[adciv]

" He also states that religion is one of the causes of crime in our society. "

Can he explain this better?

As for Atheist societies being better. Last I checked most communist governments "outlawed" religion. Lets take a look at how great a place the USSR was to live in under Stalin.

[billf]

Are you actually saying the the problem with Communism is Atheism adciv?

That's not only horribly wrong, but also quite offensive.

I suggest if you really want to learn a bit about Atheism click on the Hellbound Alleee link in my sig. They make some pretty interesting and inteligent points in their blogs and on their radio show.

Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:16 am:

in fact, just start reading Franc's blog. http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/

[Bigity]

No, I think he's replying to the charge that religion is the cause of all crimes, which is quite offensive to most people, not just atheists.

[adciv]

[quote="Bigity";p="553585"]No, I think he's replying to the charge that religion is the cause of all crimes, which is quite offensive to most people, not just atheists.[/quote]

Bingo.

[Memo]

Not again... this has been argued a lot of times. It always ends in a flamewar between the two members that don't want to stop kicking the dead horse.

[billf]

See, that's why I usually stay out of this section of the forum. There are too many people saying way to lengthy things and I honestly just get bored and don't read all of it, therefore I miss things

Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:22 pm:

As far as religion causing crime, I can't agree with that. Most people comitting crimes aren't thinking about being forgiven by anyone or anything when they do it. They are only thinking about themselves. God has nothing to do with it.

[mikehendo]

Everyone is right.. This is at least the third discussion of this that i ahve come across, and jim, you have taken part in each of the three that i remember, heck you even started at least one of them..

[jimkatai]

Maybe two, but I'm not sure about three. I kind of fade in and out of this forum and I'm in the part of my cycle where I'm back. Anyways, the reasoning behind religion causing crime is referring to the social taboos that religion creates and the people that rebel against these taboos, only for the sake of rebellion. My counterpoint was that religion does not create social taboos, it only influences them. In an atheist society, while the taboos might be different, they will still have their rebellion sect, as a result.

Also, when I say Atheism is a religion, I mean it two different ways, both of which I think apply. A belief system that attempts to tell people what is right, and infer judgement through that. My second definition is whether or not Atheism is a belief which people would be willing to kill over. These are the two patterns of societal beliefs tht I think hurt society, so they are what I am referring to.