Darwin's Dilemma Solved?

IIOVERII · Post by **IIOVERII** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:35 pm

I can't wait to read their theory. I'll post the final results when I see them.

http://scienceagogo.com/news/2006001700 ... _sys.shtml

yoctobot · Post by **yoctobot** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:03 pm

I can't wait either!

IIOVERII · Post by **IIOVERII** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:12 pm

Thanks for the enthusiasm, my thread was feeling very lonely.

yoctobot · Post by **yoctobot** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:23 pm

I noticed...... I cant wait to hear what they have to say..... I hope they have some good hard evidence to back it up....... If so at least one good thing came of ID!

Seraphim · Post by **Seraphim** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:28 pm

Most scientists answer this gap by suggesting that small genetic mutations accumulate over time to produce wondrous innovations such as eyes and wings, but others consider this explanation weak.

People that think that are often those that think we evolved directly from an existing species of ape.

adciv · Post by **adciv** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:24 am

life, n : the whim of several billion cells to be with you for a while.

Mind you, I believe in evolution. However, here are the biggest holes in evolution that need to be explained as I see it:

Going from single to multicelular organisms.
Cell Specialization (I think that's the right term)
division to sexual reproduction (asexual/sexual, either one)
asexual to sexual reproduction
developement of new organs
complete loss of old/obsolete organs (not sure if this part has ever happened)
How, once something has gone to sexual reproduction, at least one of each gender evolved simultaniously to reproduce the new species.
Change in the number of chromosomes in new species (this partly has to do with above)

I'm probably missing one or two more, but I'm not positive.

If they can explain those, they've got it down.

Seraphim · Post by **Seraphim** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:12 am

Cell Specialization (I think that's the right term)

That's easy. After an organism made the leap to multicelularity, cell specialization was a small jump.

The first I'm aware of is Hydra's. It folded in on itslef to form a cup. The cells inside the cup produced more digestive fluids than the outside cells. That can easily happen from random chance. There are mutations to make certain cells go beyond their original scope. Obviously one that would turn the cavity into a sort of "gut" would be highly beneficail.

AzraeL · Post by **AzraeL** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:38 am

complete loss of old/obsolete organs (not sure if this part has ever happened)

I don't think we use our appendix/tonsils/cecum(sp?), but we still have the withered remains attached to our body out of disuse. Eventually they will dissappear...

yoctobot · Post by **yoctobot** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:10 am

[quote="adciv";p="586088"]life, n : the whim of several billion cells to be with you for a while.

Mind you, I believe in evolution. However, here are the biggest holes in evolution that need to be explained as I see it:

Going from single to multicelular organisms.
Cell Specialization (I think that's the right term)
division to sexual reproduction (asexual/sexual, either one)
asexual to sexual reproduction
developement of new organs
complete loss of old/obsolete organs (not sure if this part has ever happened)
How, once something has gone to sexual reproduction, at least one of each gender evolved simultaniously to reproduce the new species.
Change in the number of chromosomes in new species (this partly has to do with above)

I'm probably missing one or two more, but I'm not positive.

If they can explain those, they've got it down.[/quote]

Alot of these questions can be answered in nature right now.

Such as the bolded point.
There are some frogs that if there are no males or females in the population a few of them will change sex in order to reproduce.

Seraphim · Post by **Seraphim** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:39 am

gender started by having sex with yourself. As in there was a-sexual reproduction with gametes. It was only a matter of time before they seperated. If that made any sense.

Post by **Blaze** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:14 am

Such as the bolded point.
There are some frogs that if there are no males or females in the population a few of them will change sex in order to reproduce.

That fails to explain why every species can't do that, then. See, individual sexes had to come FIRST.

gender started by having sex with yourself. As in there was a-sexual reproduction with gametes. It was only a matter of time before they seperated. If that made any sense.

No, that makes no sense whatsoever. The ability for cellular tissues to replicate based on a single set of DNA and the ability to share DNA, even creating a specialized organ for distributing it, is ENTIRELY different.

Schmuck · Post by **Schmuck** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:33 am

[quote="Seraphim";p="586118"]

Cell Specialization (I think that's the right term)

That's easy. After an organism made the leap to multicelularity, cell specialization was a small jump.

The first I'm aware of is Hydra's. It folded in on itslef to form a cup. The cells inside the cup produced more digestive fluids than the outside cells. That can easily happen from random chance. There are mutations to make certain cells go beyond their original scope. Obviously one that would turn the cavity into a sort of "gut" would be highly beneficail.[/quote]

Sponges had specialised cells first I think, but just not permanently specialised. And technically songes are communities of individuals rather than single large organisms but it's still significant imo.

Seraphim · Post by **Seraphim** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:26 pm

sponges are animals. There was cell specialization before there were animals.

adciv · Post by **adciv** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:39 pm

[quote="Seraphim";p="586118"]

Cell Specialization (I think that's the right term)

That's easy. After an organism made the leap to multicelularity, cell specialization was a small jump.

The first I'm aware of is Hydra's. It folded in on itslef to form a cup. The cells inside the cup produced more digestive fluids than the outside cells. That can easily happen from random chance. There are mutations to make certain cells go beyond their original scope. Obviously one that would turn the cavity into a sort of "gut" would be highly beneficail.[/quote]

What you imply would seem to mean that the internal cells have a different genetic code than the outer cells. They maintain the same genetic code, what they do is have different parts of the genetic code "activate " and change the function of the cell. That is what needs to be explained.

Schmuck · Post by **Schmuck** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:00 am

[quote="Seraphim";p="586728"]sponges are animals. There was cell specialization before there were animals.[/quote]

Would you care to enlarge on this statement in a meaningful way, perhaps with examples?

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