Alabama Repeals Interracial Marriage Ban

Euthanatos · Post by **Euthanatos** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:23 am

No. The South was more institutional with its racism, and slower to give it up. I've never said they held blacks as equals before this, or that Northern states are a ton better, but the Northern states today are still better than the Southern ones. You'll always find racists, but the legacy of institutional racism is stronger in the South than up North. The Civil War/Confederacy bit I'm just dealing with slavery here, I'm well aware there was a hell of a lot more involved than just that but it did have a place in the discussion. The 'accepted wisdom' would be that legal discrimination and institutional racism reflect a more racist populace, and the fact that 41% were against the repeal backs that up rather strongly. And as for my statements being self-referential, that's bullshit. I'm not talking about judging the racism of the South based on my limited experience with Southerners and Northerners the way Bigity is; I'm putting forward the idea that there is a link between institutional racism and lasting cultural racism, which is fully supported by the evidence. The South kept blacks in a legally lower status than whites for over a century; one generation isn't enough to reverse that.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:49 am

Ah, I think that helps clear it up quite a bit.

Metzgirl · Post by **Metzgirl** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:24 pm

Thank you, Euthanatos, for explaining that while I was at work.

SunTzu · Post by **SunTzu** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:40 pm

Wait. Did Euth and Deac have a fully civilized and mature discussion, about a heated subject, without any kind of flames, badmouthing or insults? And actually finish it in a nice way?

Apperntly, there is a God.

mikehendo · Post by **mikehendo** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:44 pm

[quote="Deacon";p="641448"]As far as today is concerned, I'm not convinced I couldn't take a drive up the eastern seaboard, stop anywhere randomly, and shake a stick without hitting three or four racist people.
[/quote]

Well Deacon.. You probably couldnt do that anywhere.. Racism is still alive and well in most parts of the country.. Heck, in most parts of the world..

Posted Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:47 am:

[quote="SunTzu";p="641602"]Wait. Did Euth and Deac have a fully civilized and mature discussion, about a heated subject, without any kind of flames, badmouthing or insults? And actually finish it in a nice way?

Apperntly, there is a God.[/quote]
You mean to tell me that Hell did not freeze over?

Euthanatos · Post by **Euthanatos** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:59 pm

[quote="SunTzu";p="641602"]Wait. Did Euth and Deac have a fully civilized and mature discussion, about a heated subject, without any kind of flames, badmouthing or insults? And actually finish it in a nice way?

Apperntly, there is a God.[/quote]

Fall in a well and die.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:29 pm

Oh Reginald...

I DISAGREE!

*vrooooooom*

AzraeL · Post by **AzraeL** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:59 pm

Damn drive-by arguments...

dmpotter · Post by **dmpotter** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:22 pm

It's worth noting that Northern abolitionist (the ones who wanted to get rid of slavery) weren't exactly non-racist. They wanted to abolish slavery, and then ship all them colored folks back to Africa. See Liberia

mikehendo · Post by **mikehendo** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:44 pm

"I think I'll have a coke then..."
heh

Bigity · Post by **Bigity** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:21 pm

[quote="Euthanatos";p="641451"]No. The South was more institutional with its racism, and slower to give it up. I've never said they held blacks as equals before this, or that Northern states are a ton better, but the Northern states today are still better than the Southern ones. You'll always find racists, but the legacy of institutional racism is stronger in the South than up North. The Civil War/Confederacy bit I'm just dealing with slavery here, I'm well aware there was a hell of a lot more involved than just that but it did have a place in the discussion. The 'accepted wisdom' would be that legal discrimination and institutional racism reflect a more racist populace, and the fact that 41% were against the repeal backs that up rather strongly. And as for my statements being self-referential, that's bullshit. I'm not talking about judging the racism of the South based on my limited experience with Southerners and Northerners the way Bigity is; I'm putting forward the idea that there is a link between institutional racism and lasting cultural racism, which is fully supported by the evidence. The South kept blacks in a legally lower status than whites for over a century; one generation isn't enough to reverse that.[/quote]

A little better argument, but still you list as facts some things that are not 'accepted wisdom' by large groups.

Euthanatos · Post by **Euthanatos** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:35 pm

You and your friends are not a large group, even if some of them are black and some of you have been both North and South.

Bigity · Post by **Bigity** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:12 am

I just don't buy into the fact that the south was any more racist then the north.

Northern states first enacted segregation, and the rebuilding southern states followed. In fact, Northern states began segregation before the Civil War started.

Almost all 'freed' slaves were forced to live in enclaves in all the major cities of the time. They were denied access to establishments, and even wealthy blacks were not allowed to live in white neighborhoods, for fear of driving down property values.

There are studies that show that living conditions in these enclaves were so bad, that nearly every black infant in Philly died shortly after birth. Before the Civil War, black people were assaulted in the streets in Northern cities, houses looted, churches burned, etc. Note that these attacks were not on slaves, but supposedly free black persons, and the occured before, during, and after the Civil War.

At least one reporter in the North who wrote that the war was about freeing the slaves actually had offices attacked and sacked by soldiers just returning from the war, and this view was highly detested by the vast majority of northerners at the time.

I might give you the point that some southerners remained violently racist for longer after the Civil War, but first I would have to research the actions of various racist groups such as the KKK in northern areas.

What I won't budge on is that more racism existed or continues to exist on one side of the Mason-Dixon line than the other.

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:17 am

What I won't budge on is that more racism existed or continues to exist on one side of the Mason-Dixon line than the other.

Oh really. Where did America's own domestic terrorist group, the KKK, set up shop and get sympathy from the people and support from the government? Where were there the most lynchings? Where were civil rights workers murdered? Where were civil rights protesters assaulted by the police?

Euthanatos · Post by **Euthanatos** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:18 am

[quote="Bigity";p="641904"]What I won't budge on is that more racism existed or continues to exist on one side of the Mason-Dixon line than the other.[/quote]

The North has had no recent issues with interracial marriage getting repealed. I'd love to see you show me a figure higher than 41% opposed to repeal at the same time in any Northern state for that state. Most repealed those laws, if any, well before this, and in higher margins in support. You may feel free not to budge, but the votes speak truer than you.

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