2008 US presidential elections: Who will run?
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1) Remain civil. Respect others' rights to their viewpoints, even if you believe them to be completely wrong.
2) Sourcing your information is highly recommended. Plagiarism will get you banned.
3) Please create a new thread for a new topic, even if you think it might not get a lot of responses. Do not create mega-threads.
4) If you think the subject of a thread is not important enough to merit a post, simply avoid posting in it. If enough people agree, it will fall off the page soon enough.
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adciv
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*edit* Woops, sorry, wrong thread. ignore this.
Last edited by adciv on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Repensum Est Canicula
The most dangerous words from an Engineer: "I have an idea."
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
The most dangerous words from an Engineer: "I have an idea."
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
yes.. lets not have this turn towards abortion.. shame on you.. You are not allowed to force a lock on a thread by bringing it up..
Back to Phone and Deacon, if you want to read one of the greatest works on what it means to be a conservative, check this out: Conscience of a Conservative
Back to Phone and Deacon, if you want to read one of the greatest works on what it means to be a conservative, check this out: Conscience of a Conservative
Last edited by mikehendo on Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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StruckingFuggle
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Re: Mr. Romney: are you just correcting The Cid, or are y'all trying to put forward just this one thing he did with The Games as reason for him to be voted for, or what?
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
I'm just correcting The_Cid, having just moved to Massachusetts I don't really know much about his politics. He does seem to be doing a decent job, and I think he handled the tunnel incident well enough.
However I simply wanted to clarify the Olympics situation because the Cid is very wrong. And if he's talking about some other aspect of the Olympics well, then it's silly to attribute that to Romney who was brought in to help make it work financially, which no one can argue that he did poorly at.
However I simply wanted to clarify the Olympics situation because the Cid is very wrong. And if he's talking about some other aspect of the Olympics well, then it's silly to attribute that to Romney who was brought in to help make it work financially, which no one can argue that he did poorly at.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
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Spongiform
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[quote="mikehendo";p="687207"]According to one of the greatest conservatives of all time, Barry Goldwater, all of those would be personal issues.. it isnt so much that gay marraige needs to be legalized that it should not be made illegal. The government should stay out of abortion and marraige. The government should stay out of people's bedrooms, so long as they are not harming someone else in the process. Heck, the gay couples that i know have had far more stable relationships than the straight couples. if they want to get married then the government shouldnt try to stop them.
Whatever happened to a government that had a seperation between church and state? Back in England the pilgrims left because the Church of England was dictating politics. Sure the Catholic and protestant churches do not directly have thier fingers in the policy making process, but by endorsing candidates and taking stances on issues, pushing thier congregations to vote one way or another, things are going too far. We cannot let religious issues dictate our laws.
The conservatives are lost, they have lost most of what they used to stand for. Those in the christian right are so far off track that they make thier religion look nasty and brutish. Why must they continue to influence policy when all they do is rely upon messages of hate and seperation.
Conservatives should focus on what conservatives used to focus on, small government that stayed out of personal lives.[/quote]
Thank you for saying that, Mikehendo. Honestly, the current national Republican party has no right anymore to call themselves conservatives.
Whatever happened to a government that had a seperation between church and state? Back in England the pilgrims left because the Church of England was dictating politics. Sure the Catholic and protestant churches do not directly have thier fingers in the policy making process, but by endorsing candidates and taking stances on issues, pushing thier congregations to vote one way or another, things are going too far. We cannot let religious issues dictate our laws.
The conservatives are lost, they have lost most of what they used to stand for. Those in the christian right are so far off track that they make thier religion look nasty and brutish. Why must they continue to influence policy when all they do is rely upon messages of hate and seperation.
Conservatives should focus on what conservatives used to focus on, small government that stayed out of personal lives.[/quote]
Thank you for saying that, Mikehendo. Honestly, the current national Republican party has no right anymore to call themselves conservatives.
Mike, my only problem with this line of discussion is that you say "standard meaning of conservative" but what you're really talking about is the academic meaning, and lets face it the only REAL conservatives by the actual definition are wacked out libertarians.
The standard meaning is "Someone who is on the right." It's almost a form of hyperbole to try and undercut Deacon and I by saying 'Oh but you aren't REAL conservatives, a conservative is XYZ." Well, maybe to a political scientists, but in the real world the meaning of conservative has changed.
The standard meaning is "Someone who is on the right." It's almost a form of hyperbole to try and undercut Deacon and I by saying 'Oh but you aren't REAL conservatives, a conservative is XYZ." Well, maybe to a political scientists, but in the real world the meaning of conservative has changed.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
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StruckingFuggle
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Just say that the Republican party aren't really Republicans anymore. Works better than saying they're not "conservative".
Of course, how does the party violate the identity property? Look at their oath. Look at the party. And either shake your head in dismay or laugh, either one would probably be apropriate. And more accurate than talking about what is or is not 'conservative', as that's one of those words that's been used and misused for so long in so many ways as to become all but a worthless and used-up pile of syllables.
Of course, how does the party violate the identity property? Look at their oath. Look at the party. And either shake your head in dismay or laugh, either one would probably be apropriate. And more accurate than talking about what is or is not 'conservative', as that's one of those words that's been used and misused for so long in so many ways as to become all but a worthless and used-up pile of syllables.
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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Deacon
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[quote="mikehendo";p="687207"]According to one of the greatest conservatives of all time, Barry Goldwater, all of those would be personal issues..[/quote]
An appeal to authority isn't really going to help you all that much, especially when the person you're lecturing doesn't hold any tremendous amount of great personal respect for that authority. It also doesn't help that the position is incorrect. A personal issue is what you have for dinner--as long as that dinner is legal to have. Your neighbor, for instance, isn't legal to have for dinner. Whether your unborn child has any basic human rights? That's not a personal issue. That's a public issue, though in this case the public has had proper authority on the issue stolen by overzealous courts. Whether to alter the definition of marriage to include scenarios other than one man and one woman? That's not a personal issue, either. That's a public, legal issue. Regardless of whether you're for or against such a change, it's a change nonetheless, and it's up to the public to decide whether such a change should be made, and if so what the new definition should look like.
An appeal to authority isn't really going to help you all that much, especially when the person you're lecturing doesn't hold any tremendous amount of great personal respect for that authority. It also doesn't help that the position is incorrect. A personal issue is what you have for dinner--as long as that dinner is legal to have. Your neighbor, for instance, isn't legal to have for dinner. Whether your unborn child has any basic human rights? That's not a personal issue. That's a public issue, though in this case the public has had proper authority on the issue stolen by overzealous courts. Whether to alter the definition of marriage to include scenarios other than one man and one woman? That's not a personal issue, either. That's a public, legal issue. Regardless of whether you're for or against such a change, it's a change nonetheless, and it's up to the public to decide whether such a change should be made, and if so what the new definition should look like.
Really. Think about what you're saying. You're saying there should be no more institution known as marriage, legally recognized anyway. Parental rights and divorces and blood tests and marriage certificates and all the legal ramifications of marriage just completely removed from the books. Marriage no longer exists, legally speaking. Do you really think that? And your assertion regarding abortion depends entirely on your position on human rights and when exactly a human being is assumed to have been granted those rights. And regardless of which arbitrary point you happen to believe is correct, your statement is as ridiculous and airheaded as someone saying, "The government should stay out of murder."The government should stay out of abortion and marraige.
Regardless of whether anyone agrees with that statement, isn't that already the case, practically speaking?The government should stay out of people's bedrooms, so long as they are not harming someone else in the process.
Just because an issue may be relevant to one does not mean it is mutually exclusive to the other. Let me know the next time the Pope's edicts overrule the laws and executive orders in the US, and we'll talk.Whatever happened to a government that had a seperation between church and state?
Really? You're sure about that? That doesn't sound familiar.Back in England the pilgrims left because the Church of England was dictating politics.
Your assertion is as naive and narrow minded as it is idealistic. Your stance on an issue is influenced by many factors. You are not bringing up issues of small differences in doctrine between similar factions of a particular religion, but rather basic questions of existence and human rights. In fact, the only reason you're taking this ridiculous and unachievable stance regarding removing any whiff of religious beliefs from one's vote is because in this instance they happen to disagree with you. If they'd been pushing toward your own personal desired end, then you'd be applauding them for being so forward-thinking and awesome. Your rhetoric is as tiring as it is transparent.Sure the Catholic and protestant churches do not directly have thier fingers in the policy making process, but by endorsing candidates and taking stances on issues, pushing thier congregations to vote one way or another, things are going too far. We cannot let religious issues dictate our laws.
That last sentence is morbidly amusing and slightly ironic in the face of everything you've been saying leading up to it, your messages of hate and anger and insistence upon unrealistic separation.The conservatives are lost, they have lost most of what they used to stand for. Those in the christian right are so far off track that they make thier religion look nasty and brutish. Why must they continue to influence policy when all they do is rely upon messages of hate and seperation.
Government by definition interferes in people's lives. That's exactly what the government does. The concept of a government is impossible otherwise.Conservatives should focus on what conservatives used to focus on, small government that stayed out of personal lives.
...a conservative in the standard meaning of the word would not want the government interfering in people's lives..
You can leave the straw men and question-talking at home.So, you want to deny certain people the right to achieve the same status as others just because you happen to disagree with thier lifestyles? How very un-conservative of you..
Last edited by Deacon on Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
Same with Liberal and Democrat, all they are anymore are labels.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
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StruckingFuggle
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Phong: Exactly.
[quote="Deacon";p="687267"]
A: Isn't that what you support, just phrased in a way that you find ugly?
B: What's the straw man, here? He's not creating a false point, he's attacking something you seem to actually support, which is the denial of homosexual couples the government contract of marriage, because you don't like the idea of them being entitled to it, too, no?
[quote="Deacon";p="687267"]
You can leave the straw men and question-talking at home.[/quote]So, you want to deny certain people the right to achieve the same status as others just because you happen to disagree with thier lifestyles? How very un-conservative of you..
A: Isn't that what you support, just phrased in a way that you find ugly?
B: What's the straw man, here? He's not creating a false point, he's attacking something you seem to actually support, which is the denial of homosexual couples the government contract of marriage, because you don't like the idea of them being entitled to it, too, no?
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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StruckingFuggle
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Because if you let a man marry a man, you have ot let him marry another man, and then his daughter, and then his baby, and then his cat, and then his truck and the world will END!
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."
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