I concur with Skorp & Az.
Also, let me put it this way: In primary school they teach kids to play baseball/softball. They pick it up pretty quickly. They don't teach them (american) football. I remember in high school P.E. it took 4 lessons for the teacher to explain the goddam rules of (american) football, and then weeks before the class even started to understand and play it.
Which is more complex?
Baseball is one of those things that is easy to play, and damn near impossible to master. You can give a bunch of kids bats and gloves and balls and they can play "Baseball"
The complexity comes in make split decisions in the field, accounting for all the variables, in baseball that rests in all positions, every single position has the same responsibility that one position in football has. A quarterback might make a lot of snap decisions, but the rest of the team is told to go out and hit the other guy, stop the other guy from hitting the quarterback, get open, run this pattern. Well blah.
I spent as a kid and in high school literally hours a day with my step dad and later as a team with a drawing of a baseball field and some checkers going over every potential variable we could think of.
"Man on third and first, ball is hit to shallow center field, the center fielder can't make the catch but gets to it in time to make a play." What do you do if you're the catcher, what do you do if you're the second baseman? What do you do if you're the pitcher? If the throw is coming to second are you backing up 2B or the Catcher?
Part of the reason it's so easy to pick up is that rules like Balk and the Infield Fly Rule are left off until you're just about in High School so that kids understand the game.
And by the way no, Football players would likely NOT be better at playing baseball then Baseball players would be at playing football. Baseball is one of the most high skill games there is after golf.
I'm sure most of the people that are calling it simple couldn't compete against a little league team.
The complexity comes in make split decisions in the field, accounting for all the variables, in baseball that rests in all positions, every single position has the same responsibility that one position in football has. A quarterback might make a lot of snap decisions, but the rest of the team is told to go out and hit the other guy, stop the other guy from hitting the quarterback, get open, run this pattern. Well blah.
I spent as a kid and in high school literally hours a day with my step dad and later as a team with a drawing of a baseball field and some checkers going over every potential variable we could think of.
"Man on third and first, ball is hit to shallow center field, the center fielder can't make the catch but gets to it in time to make a play." What do you do if you're the catcher, what do you do if you're the second baseman? What do you do if you're the pitcher? If the throw is coming to second are you backing up 2B or the Catcher?
Part of the reason it's so easy to pick up is that rules like Balk and the Infield Fly Rule are left off until you're just about in High School so that kids understand the game.
And by the way no, Football players would likely NOT be better at playing baseball then Baseball players would be at playing football. Baseball is one of the most high skill games there is after golf.
I'm sure most of the people that are calling it simple couldn't compete against a little league team.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
-
Deacon
- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44234
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
Phong, you seem to have misunderstood the question. As a game, which is more complex? Hell, golf is difficult to master, but that doesn't mean it's an extraordinarily complex game. There are subtleties and minutia in any sport when you reach a very high level of play.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
Well AS A GAME. Baseball is far more complicated. We were talking about a high level from the very start, if you examine it from a basic point of view Football is simplistic One team attempts to bring the ball down the field, a quarterback received the ball from the center and can either pass it forward or hand it off. The other team attempts to halt the forward movement of the ball.
Baseball on the other hand uses a complex system of bases, conditions in which and out is declared, conditions on which a strike is called, conditions on which the ball is "in play" or "foul" Conditions in which there can or cannot be physical contact.
You're arguing against your own point here, NO game is complicated if you reduce it to it's simplest form.
Baseball on the other hand uses a complex system of bases, conditions in which and out is declared, conditions on which a strike is called, conditions on which the ball is "in play" or "foul" Conditions in which there can or cannot be physical contact.
You're arguing against your own point here, NO game is complicated if you reduce it to it's simplest form.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
-
Deacon
- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44234
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
Phong, you give the most simplistic summarization of football ever known, and then you go on talking about "a complex series of bases" (I read the rest of the post looking for any indication that you were freaking joking) for baseball and such. It's ridiculous. I will not be moved off this mountain. Football is far more complex than baseball. That's all there is to it.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
I gave a LIST of complex things, I was not talking about BASES and you know it. What I'm trying to explain that you're talking (apparently) about professional football and then when I bring up high level baseball you start going off about how "we're talking about them AS A GAME."
If I attempted to give as simple an explanation of baseball as I can it would read like;
You set up 4 bases in a 90 foot square, forming the infield, and the outfield is formed by the line formed by continuing the first and third baselines out about 300 feet. nine players on each side are organized into offense and defense. The defense takes the field, With three outfielders, 4 infielders, a pitcher and a catcher. The offense bats in an order, the first batter steps into the batters box, and gets ready, The pitcher then attempts to throw a strike (passing the ball over home plate vertically and between the elbows and knees of the batter. If the batter swings and misses a strike is called, if he does not swing, and the ball does not pass through the strike zone...
Dude, I'm getting tired. Quit just saying "Football is more complex. PERIOD!" Quit arguing like some sort of fucking 5 year old, I'm sick of watching it, even when I agree with you.
Posted Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:09 am:
And actually This:
If I attempted to give as simple an explanation of baseball as I can it would read like;
You set up 4 bases in a 90 foot square, forming the infield, and the outfield is formed by the line formed by continuing the first and third baselines out about 300 feet. nine players on each side are organized into offense and defense. The defense takes the field, With three outfielders, 4 infielders, a pitcher and a catcher. The offense bats in an order, the first batter steps into the batters box, and gets ready, The pitcher then attempts to throw a strike (passing the ball over home plate vertically and between the elbows and knees of the batter. If the batter swings and misses a strike is called, if he does not swing, and the ball does not pass through the strike zone...
Dude, I'm getting tired. Quit just saying "Football is more complex. PERIOD!" Quit arguing like some sort of fucking 5 year old, I'm sick of watching it, even when I agree with you.
Posted Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:09 am:
And actually This:
Is the most simplistic version of football there is.American football, known in the United States and Canada simply as football, is a competitive team sport. The object of the game is to score points by advancing the football into the opposing team's end zone. The ball can be advanced by carrying the ball, or by throwing or handing it from one teammate to the other. Points can be scored in a variety of ways, including carrying the ball over the goal line, throwing the ball to another player past the goal line or kicking it through the goal posts on the opposing side. The winner is the team with the most points when the time expires and the last play ends.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
-
Deacon
- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44234
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
And I know it? Sorry, but I didn't figure out what you meant to say, apparently. And no, I'm sorry that I cannot accept your assertion that baseball is more complex than football, mostly because it isn't, and it blows my mind that anyone would assert otherwise.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
You haven't even argued your point, Deacon. You just keep repeating it, and saying "I can't believe anyone would think differently." as if that will make it come true.
Have you ever even played competitive football or baseball before?
Have you ever even played competitive football or baseball before?
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
-
Sophira
- Jezzy's Belle
- Posts: 4858
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:20 pm
- Real Name: get outta my grits
- Gender: Female
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
Do you really have to play a sport to understand the complexity of the game?<Arc_Orion> And I give rides to dudes!
<kaiju01> Yeah, I'm kind of a dick.
<Hirschof>Long from now, when the Earth is charred and barren, the only things left on the surface will be cockroaches and the continuous bickering between Fuggle and Deacon.
<Deacon> I'm not, however, played by a homosexual child star.
<kaiju01> Yeah, I'm kind of a dick.
<Hirschof>Long from now, when the Earth is charred and barren, the only things left on the surface will be cockroaches and the continuous bickering between Fuggle and Deacon.
<Deacon> I'm not, however, played by a homosexual child star.
Phong, go back and read the links I provided. Baseball doesn't hold a candle to Football's complexity.
[quote="Phong";p="696123"]Well AS A GAME. Baseball is far more complicated. We were talking about a high level from the very start, if you examine it from a basic point of view Football is simplistic One team attempts to bring the ball down the field, a quarterback received the ball from the center and can either pass it forward or hand it off. The other team attempts to halt the forward movement of the ball.
Baseball on the other hand uses a complex system of bases, conditions in which and out is declared, conditions on which a strike is called, conditions on which the ball is "in play" or "foul" Conditions in which there can or cannot be physical contact.[/quote]
Are you serious? Give me a second to stop laughing...
To use your same method of argument:
[quote="Phong re-visited";p="696123"]Well AS A GAME. Football is far more complicated. We were talking about a high level from the very start, if you examine it from a basic point of view Baseball is simplistic One player attempts to hit the ball in bounds, a pitcher throws the ball trying to keep the batter from hitting it. The rest of the defenders stand around trying to catch the ball if it actually gets hit.
Football on the other hand uses a complex system of formations, structured coordination of 11 offensive players called 'plays', complex defensive schemes designed to react to offensive plays, an insanely detailed penalty system in which 22 players per play have to play within certain boundaries or cause a penalty.[/quote]
You purposely described football in the simplest terms you could think of, and then turned around and added as much complexity to your description of baseball as humanly possible. And you were wrong to boot.
[quote="Phong";p="696123"]Well AS A GAME. Baseball is far more complicated. We were talking about a high level from the very start, if you examine it from a basic point of view Football is simplistic One team attempts to bring the ball down the field, a quarterback received the ball from the center and can either pass it forward or hand it off. The other team attempts to halt the forward movement of the ball.
Baseball on the other hand uses a complex system of bases, conditions in which and out is declared, conditions on which a strike is called, conditions on which the ball is "in play" or "foul" Conditions in which there can or cannot be physical contact.[/quote]
Are you serious? Give me a second to stop laughing...
To use your same method of argument:
[quote="Phong re-visited";p="696123"]Well AS A GAME. Football is far more complicated. We were talking about a high level from the very start, if you examine it from a basic point of view Baseball is simplistic One player attempts to hit the ball in bounds, a pitcher throws the ball trying to keep the batter from hitting it. The rest of the defenders stand around trying to catch the ball if it actually gets hit.
Football on the other hand uses a complex system of formations, structured coordination of 11 offensive players called 'plays', complex defensive schemes designed to react to offensive plays, an insanely detailed penalty system in which 22 players per play have to play within certain boundaries or cause a penalty.[/quote]
You purposely described football in the simplest terms you could think of, and then turned around and added as much complexity to your description of baseball as humanly possible. And you were wrong to boot.
No, I was simple thinking of the simplest way to describe baseball. I'll admit that it probably comes off as alot more complex then I was trying for because it's a sport that I have such an inside view of that I have trouble trying to simplify it.
I can sit here and try to compare them one to one, but frankly, I don't have the time. Nor do I neccesarily have the knowledge about football. But I AM qualified to be an umpire, and I think that counts for something. I think you aren't objectively looking at baseball in terms of the basic rules of the game.
If you look at the rules and conditions for each game I think you'll find that in essence, baseball is a more complex sport. Strategy wise, you're definatly right, Football is the far more complicated from the coaching point of view. If you examine individual roles though, much of Football is pretty mindless unless you're the quarterback, whereas in baseball players are required to be thinking on their feet constantly at all positions.
I'll remind you though, as Deacon told me, we aren't talking about High Strategy we're talking about the basics. Look at it this way, what do you need to play a pick up game of football? A ball, a couple of friends, and an open space. What do you need to play an pick up game of baseball, Bats, balls, gloves, bases, and at least 14-15 people if you can't get all 18 people you need.
I can sit here and try to compare them one to one, but frankly, I don't have the time. Nor do I neccesarily have the knowledge about football. But I AM qualified to be an umpire, and I think that counts for something. I think you aren't objectively looking at baseball in terms of the basic rules of the game.
If you look at the rules and conditions for each game I think you'll find that in essence, baseball is a more complex sport. Strategy wise, you're definatly right, Football is the far more complicated from the coaching point of view. If you examine individual roles though, much of Football is pretty mindless unless you're the quarterback, whereas in baseball players are required to be thinking on their feet constantly at all positions.
I'll remind you though, as Deacon told me, we aren't talking about High Strategy we're talking about the basics. Look at it this way, what do you need to play a pick up game of football? A ball, a couple of friends, and an open space. What do you need to play an pick up game of baseball, Bats, balls, gloves, bases, and at least 14-15 people if you can't get all 18 people you need.
In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time that a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection. - Hugo Rossi, Mathmetician.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests