Is it still ok for Illegal Immigrants to come here?

[StruckingFuggle]

/me bows to Jamie's post and gives him a little round of applause

[Yira Heerai]

[quote="Deacon";p="705304"][quote="Yira Heerai";p="705300"]
There are people who are lawful citizens here who don't have their vehicles fully registered and insured.[/quote]
Then they're not lawful citizens (hehe, I know what you mean, though). Regardless, your response would suggest that illegals are better about insuring their vehicles than those not here illegally. The point is that this kind of thing is one of many examples of the pains you have to deal with, especially here in south Texas, which is that illegals aren't usually completely legal with everything other than their border jumping status. It's like anti-gun nuts insisting that we make a law requiring everyone to register any and all firearms as a way to keep track of criminals...as though criminals will suddenly cease to be criminals just long enough to register their guns.[/quote]

That wasn't the point I wanted to make, so I apologize for that. I'd taken your statement to mean that it was all illegal immigrants. I just wanted to point out that it happened with natural born citizens, too.

Not gonna comment on the rest of the stuff about legalities because that would go off on tangents I'm not coherent enough to address right now and I'm still trying to make sure I get what you're saying right.

[Deacon]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="705306"]And Deacon, if everyone had to register and track their guns from production to destruction, you'd at least be able to determine who were supplying many of them to criminals, which should be in and of itself a crime, so ... it'd help.[/quote]
MB has already addressed this fallacy in the numerous gun threads we've had in the past in the Politics And Current Events forum.

[Nukinblackmage]

I havn't read this thread yet (too fucking late, and I'm too damn tired to), so I'm just going to answer the title. No. It never has been okay for illegal immigrants to come, and it never will be okay for illegal immigrants to come. I don't care how long the legal way takes.

[AzraeL]

Yeah, those dirty bastards don't deserve a shot at a life free of persecution and poverty. How dare they flee to my country to try and make an honest buck and enjoy the rights I was lucky enough to be born with. Those bastards should just die in their own country while the immigration office constantly denies their application.

[Bigity]

Honest buck? By crossing the border without proper authority, they are explicity DIShonest.

America has welcomed immigrants from the day she was born. Don't you fucking dare act like that has changed. We want citizens, not criminals.

[Deacon]

AzraeL, you apparently have a very poor grasp of the situation. People jump the border in order to earn dishonest bucks by stealing honest people's identities, accepting cash payments under the table, running drugs, or just outright stealing. With few exceptions, this lion's share of this money is then sent back to Mexico. This is done not because they have to "flee" to the US like some sort of refugee, but because the opportunity for ripping off America is just too easy and too ripe a fruit to go unplucked when viewed through the eyes of people who come from an intrinsically corrupt culture that therefore have absolutely no moral problem with it. If they die in their own country, it is because everyone dies, eventually, not because they'll die if they don't get to jump the border. We do not owe them anything, nor do they have the right to come over and take it at their discretion. Doing so continues the negative cycle and is self-defeating in the long-run...that is, unless Congress sees an opportunity to gain an instant growth of voters by simply tossing all immigration laws out the window, as they're planning on doing. In the mean time, securing our borders remains a "meh" priority.

As far as I'm concerned, however, I think it's a lost cause to try to solve the problem at the supply side (the individual border jumpers). It seems like it'd be much more effective to solve it at the demand side, which means shady businesses who hire the border jumpers as well as the blanket law that declares that anyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen, guaranteeing the mother (at least, if not the rest of the family) a free ride to leech off the American taxpayer. If the job opportunities dry up, so does the motivation to jump the border. If the law is changed such that anyone born on US soil is automatically eligible for citizenship as long as the mother is on that US soil legally, then the temptation to jump the border as labor begins in hopes of "forcing" the American doctors to deliver a little US citizen for free is lessened as well.

Make no mistake, few border jumpers are part of some romantic notion of honest people looking to make a better life in a land of golden opportunity. They don't give a fuck about me, you, or anyone else, much less America as a country. In fact, they usually have been taught to hate it, to revile it, as it makes stealing from it that much easier to the point where they believe they have a right to do so. And in the mean time, they're breeding themselves into a significant voting force, poisoning the already floundering political system at the local, state, and federal levels. And just for reference, in case you're wondering, they do not assimilate. They take over.

[StruckingFuggle]

[quote="Bigity";p="705387"]America has welcomed immigrants from the day she was born.[/quote]

... uhm, no. No she hasn't. Try studying some American history. It's let immigrants in, but a lot of times the country has been very selective about who they let in, to keep most foreigners of a 'certain type' (not WASPs) out, and has hardly, many times, been welcoming to the people they did let in.

[Deacon]

Whoa whoa whoa...keeping everyone out but White Anglo-Saxon Protestants out? Yeah, tell that to all the Irish, Italian, and Eastern European Catholics, the Jews, and the Asians. Whether businessmen and local politicians always had the best interest of new immigrants in mind after they got here varies depending on where and when you're looking at, but don't give me this WASP BS.

[Bigity]

I would reply, but I don't have to, since it's already been done.

[document]

My mother is a naturalized citizen. She immigrated to the U.S. from the U.K. when she was 19 legally. She had all the proper documentation to come over here, originally with the intent of going to college. After she was married to my father (who in an American) they lived in the U.K. for a while, then came back to the states. Again, she obtained all of the appropriate documentation and came over as a legal alien and had a green card for many years. After having one child in the United States, she decided to become a citizen and remain here. It took her _several_ years to get her citizenship! She received her citizenship when I was four years old at the Federal Building in my town. She was required to take a basic U.S. History class (at her expense), a government class, numerous written exams, medical examinations, and finally a basic criminal background check. She then had to stand before a federal judge, raise her arm to the square, and denounce her citizenship to the U.K. and make other promises to the judge. The promises were hard for her to make, but she took them seriously and still does (i.e. to take up arms in defense of the country). She went through more red tape than she ever thought possible...but she did it.

How is it fair that she went through all the red tape to become a legal alien and later a citizen while others come into the states through illegal means? It is not OK for immigrants to come here illegally in my humble opinion. It is wonderful to have people from other countries come as legal aliens and possibly naturalize through the proper process.

[Ric_Price]

For the record, again, the topic was posted that way because of the villification of the ones who believe that people who come across ILLEGALLY do not belong here. The article I posted is just one SMALL peice of the puzzle that is the immigration issue. I firmly admire your mother for doing things the RIGHT AND LEGAL way document.

People,

I have absolutely no problems with people from other countries coming here. If they want to come here they should do it through the legal channels. If discrimination and persecution are part of the issue they could come across to "visit" then immediately seek asylum. That would afford them the protections and legal status they "desire" while speeding up the process in getting them a green card. The ones who don't come across legally largely do so because they are just too damn impatient to do things the right way or come across illegally because of illegal desires. (IE running drugs, theft, sexual assualt, amongst other) It becomes an even bigger issue when a countries government shows its citizens how to cross into our country illegally, as Vicente Fox did before leaving office. (It was early this year specifically)

I also state this for the record. I have a brother in law from Mexico, whom I respect greatly. Even he is concerned about the issue of illegals. He came across legally and believes that all who are not here through the proper legal channels ought to be shipped out.


Edit:

If a Moderator feels the need to move this to PaCE forum, feel free to do so. I had originally posted a long rant and my browser crashed as I pushed the submit button.

[StruckingFuggle]

[quote="Deacon";p="705420"]Whoa whoa whoa...keeping everyone out but White Anglo-Saxon Protestants out? Yeah, tell that to all the Irish, Italian, and Eastern European Catholics, the Jews, and the Asians. Whether businessmen and local politicians always had the best interest of new immigrants in mind after they got here varies depending on where and when you're looking at, but don't give me this WASP BS.[/quote]

Yeah, it's not like there were never quotas for what ethnicities could come to the US that heavily favored the anglo-saxons ("people like us") and never disfavored unpopular or more different ethnicities like eastern europeans or asians, and it's not like those who did make it here weren't discrminated against and made to feel unwelcome by the dominate ethnicities of the US, who, despite their entirely coming from old immigrant stock, didn't much like immigants coming over here... nope, not at all.

[document]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention...my mother had to take a basic English class and pass a test. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I just think it is funny considering she came from the U.K.

[Blaze]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="705444"]Yeah, it's not like there were never quotas for what ethnicities could come to the US that heavily favored the anglo-saxons ("people like us") and never disfavored unpopular or more different ethnicities like eastern europeans or asians, and it's not like those who did make it here weren't discrminated against and made to feel unwelcome by the dominate ethnicities of the US, who, despite their entirely coming from old immigrant stock, didn't much like immigants coming over here... nope, not at all.[/quote]

Oh, I see, so it's the GOVERNMENT that discriminates, not the citizens of a nation. Okay. Thanks for clearing thta up. I'll make sure to remember that box on most forms that says, "I prefer not to disclose that information", is fake.

Edit: To note an example, http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf. "Providing race/ethnic information is VOULENTARY.