i have the best puppies EVUR!!!!!

Aerdan · Post by **Aerdan** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:48 pm

Lapdogs are also pretty dumb. Yappy little mutts...A neighbour down the street has one, and it likes to bark. Every. Time. I. Walk. By.

Then again, the dumb shit's owners once sicked the stupid thing on me & my 18yo sister, so...

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:29 pm

[quote="gravity";p="706117"]But good training means the dog will just sit there and do what you tell it because it's trained to do that. An intelligent dog doesn't bother to get in the way, and knows not to do stupid shit. At least, that's always been my definition of the differences.[/quote]

That's so wrong it calls into question your intelligence. Tell that to your doctor at your next appointment. Tell him that he's an idiot but has simply received good training. Unless you don't truly believe that good training means a lack of intelligence. And actually the most intelligent dogs are also generally the most mischievous, especially when left alone in the house all day, for instance. They get bored and end up doing "stupid shit" to entertain themselves. Whether a dog "gets in the way" is kind of another question altogether.

I've never been attacked by a wolf dog once in my life, and I've been attacked several times by supposedly intelligent dogs that weren't intelligent, their training just made them seem that way. Most were just mutts, but Collies really are really, really dumb dogs.

Yes, Collies can often be grumpy and sometimes even seem dumb to you because they don't make the decisions you think would be best or for reasons you think are stupid, and based on the personality trends of the breed in general I wouldn't own one myself, that doesn't mean you're not irrationally applying your unusual, negative experiences with a certain breed and condemning all dogs other than wolf dogs, apparently because a wolf dog has never attacked you. Which is strange considering the odds are the other way around.

Dogs are generally fantastic pets, companions, and animals in general. Like with many things of this nature, however, the pet is often a reflection of their owner, and it usually comes down to the individual pet in the specific scenario in question. Don't sell them short and be all put off by them just because.

LQDMTL · Post by **LQDMTL** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:37 pm

Jack Russel Terriers for the win!

spikegirl7 · Post by **spikegirl7** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:52 pm

i had at one point a labrador, pure bred. He was the smartest dog i have ever met. He taught himself to turn doorknobs, pull open the door to the fridge, use the toaster (i kid you not), and a whole bunch of things.

My wolf pups are outdoor dogs, and are smart, yeah. They learn real quick (haven't had to train 'em). We tried putting them in the barn once to keep them from bothering workmen. They found an old chicken door and reopened it and came up to my door. They figured out that they weren't supposed to bother the workmen after that.

What they are: 70% wolf, 20% German shepard, 10% Malamut (approximated, their parents were both more than 50%).

oh, my puppy was sniffing at the ground just a second ago. i check it out and she's found a fifty cent piece. i swear this dog is blessed.

Sophira · Post by **Sophira** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:30 pm

My favorite breed has always been the black lab. I'm sure there are fine dogs from other breeds out there, but in my experience, black labs are consistently loyal and sweet. My sister had one from puppyhood until he died of natural causes. This dog guarded the children even from their own father sometimes if he roughhoused too hard. He was trained so he didn't have to bite--he used his mouth and teeth to restrain people he thought were being too rough with his children.

Right now my sister has a new black lab puppy. Harley's about six months old, already half-trained, and possibly the sweetest dog alive, if a little hyper. If/when I have a house, this is the type of dog I'll probably want to have. (Supposing I can warm my crotchity cat up to the idea.)

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:41 pm

Spikegirl7, where did you find your wolves for breeding? I thought it was forbidden to even own one, breeding or not (unless you own a zoo). They are wild animals,unpredictable and they were not used to live with men. Their sense of hierarchy is still very strong. They won't necessarily recognize you as their master. They can and they certainly will attack you if they think they're superior and stronger, even if raised since birth. But you probably know that.

I've been to a shelter in the North of Québec for injured wild animals (moose, wolves, bears, etc.) The man didn't even want to cross the fence because the male was an alpha and it didn't want other people to come close to its females. Perhaps it's different with you or perhaps you don't have any alpha but IMHO, the wolf's blood shouldn't be as high as 70% of a dog's heritage.

spikegirl7 · Post by **spikegirl7** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:13 pm

The way that you get the wolves is (don't do this): in certain parts of the country there are still wild wolves. In these areas wolf pups can be found. The people who get the wolf pups go for them before they are weaned, and they only go for females. They bring up the wolf pups carefully, finally breeding them with a male dog. The people we got the pups from had the offspring of a wolf and a dog. He was one of the biggest and sweetest mutts i have ever met. So my pups are the grandchildren of a wolf.

Our male is 68% wolf. He is the sweetest and tamest mutt ever to live. The only throwbacks to their wolf blood are ones that my husband and i like: howling, hunting, that sort of thing. They have never bitten anyone or made any aggressive move toward any human or any domesticated animal.

gravity · Post by **gravity** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:18 pm

[quote="Deacon";p="706154"]
Yes, Collies can often be grumpy and sometimes even seem dumb to you [/quote]

No, they seemed dumb to my grandparents. Who raised, trained, and bred the breed for over ten years. I'm going to take their word over yours, Deac, mostly because they have a tendency to back things up with facts and proof, instead of just trying to overwhelm a person with utter rudeness.

Die in a fire, banged your mom.

Post by **Blaze** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:58 pm

Okay, so whenever a person or creature makes a decision that seems dumb to you or your grandparents, or anyone, it's good grounds to think of that person or animal as dumb?

Sorry, any psychologist or zoologist will tell you people and animals don't make "dumb" decisions. They make the best possible decision given the information and experience they have at the moment.

Whether or not the situation turns out to be wrong has nothing to do with it.

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:15 pm

[quote="spikegirl7";p="706185"]The way that you get the wolves is (don't do this): in certain parts of the country there are still wild wolves. In these areas wolf pups can be found. The people who get the wolf pups go for them before they are weaned, and they only go for females. They bring up the wolf pups carefully, finally breeding them with a male dog. The people we got the pups from had the offspring of a wolf and a dog. He was one of the biggest and sweetest mutts i have ever met. So my pups are the grandchildren of a wolf.

Our male is 68% wolf. He is the sweetest and tamest mutt ever to live. The only throwbacks to their wolf blood are ones that my husband and i like: howling, hunting, that sort of thing. They have never bitten anyone or made any aggressive move toward any human or any domesticated animal.[/quote]
Oh, that explains a lot. Thanks.

FireAza · Post by **FireAza** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:12 am

I have a question, why would you want to mix wolf back into domestic dog? We've spent hundreds of years selectively breeding away the undesirable traits from wild dogs to get the dogs we have today. Why would you want to undo that by mixing domestic dog with wild dog?

Yira Heerai · Post by **Yira Heerai** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:23 am

I remember when I was younger, there was a wolf-mix in the neighborhood. I swear, that was the most beautiful dog I've ever seen. Its fur was white and really thick, but so soft. The eyes were the best shade of blue ever. It was really friendly too!

...I wanted to keep it

And in gravity's defense: I think she means her grandparents dogs specifically. The dogs seem dumb to her grandparents, who raised them and trained them for years. I would think the grandparents would know more about these dogs than anyone else. Maybe not other dogs, but their own dogs yes.

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:37 am

Sorry, any psychologist or zoologist will tell you people and animals don't make "dumb" decisions. They make the best possible decision given the information and experience they have at the moment.

Dumb people do that, too ... they just have poor judgement for what's best, and generally poor understanding of information and generally poor experiences.

Also: I'm very much not a dog person, but cool dogs.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:53 am

How many of these "wolf dogs" some people are thinking of are simply misnamed huskies and such?

jimkatai · Post by **jimkatai** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:19 am

My step-dad used to have a wolf-dog (50% Malamute, 50% Gray Wolf). He was the Alpha of his litter. Yet, my Step-Dad, you would have to see and know him to understand why and how, was able to become Alpha to T.C. (the name of the dog). My Step-Dad used to run the streets and such with this dog and this dog was his protection, and often times mine when I lived in a particularly nasty area.

This dog was incredibly smart (we used to make the joke that he was smarter than some humans.) How was he smart? Very little of it was trained into him, other than sit and to get off the couch when my Step-Dad walked into the room. The most particular way to tell how smart he was was to see him run away, surprisingly.

He always ran away, as it was just in his personality (not to mention he could jump a seven-foot fence and walk along it like a cat) and every time we would catch him, we would notice little things that he did. One was that he looked both ways before crossing a street and ALWAYS used crosswalks (the reason we joked why he was smarter than most humans). Another notable one was that, if he saw another dog going for a walk, he would go over another block, so the dog wouldn't bark at him and get all riled up.

One other trait that he had was his ability to protect the people "in his pack", basically my family. Not just his ability to protect but to do it the "right" way. There are a lot of examples I can't give you with my Step-Dad, due to certain circumstances, but I can give you two other examples. One was when I happened to be walking to the local 7-11 with T.C. in the bad neighborhood I mentioned at night. Two kids walked up to me, one of them I knew. They basically, in simpler words, tried to mug me. One of them might have had a gun, or might have just been putting his finger up to his sweatshirt. All I know is that T.C., faster than one could blink an eye, had snapped up to the kid's wrist that had the gun and bit him while twisting his body (My Step-Dad later told me T.C. was trained to twist to disarm the person) and then let go promptly for a second to wait for the kid to run (My Step-Dad also had said that if the kids hadn't ran right after he bit them, T.C. was trained to rip their throat out, something I am happy didn't happen). The other event, which is rather minor, but will be significant to anyone that has had to get rid of a pet because of the protectiveness the pet will exhibit around their children. T.C. had this dilemma also, at first, and we were afraid we would have to give him to someone else. That was until we found out that whenever T.C. saw something he objected to, in the case of discipline or something, the dog would get up and walk out of the room.

Anyways, I don't know why I'm saying all of this, but it was originally supposed to be a response to Aza'a statement, saying that wolves are still used for breeding because of their pack mentality, and their survival instincts (not to mention they are an incredibly smart breed) and to refute Arminius' claim that you can't override a wolf's alpha instincts and become the wolf's Alpha. I do have to say it takes a very strong will to do so, and the way you raise a dog with wolf in it is not a way you train any other dog, but it is possible to override the Alpha mentality of a wolf-dog (although with many breeds there are inherent risks that come with inherent advantages, I'll give you that).

Anyways, (God I'm being ranty) this sort of ended up being story time about T.C., and really doesn't directly address the two points I made above, but I think it's in there.

EDIT: Also, I meant to mention this but forgot. I don't know, for a fact, that it was a pure-bred gray wolf (don't even know the likeliness of having pure-bred gray wolves from the wild) but I do know the 50% malamute part. Basically, how it happened was there was a wolf that lived around my Step-Dad's friend's farm in Oregon and a wolf, one of a pack that roamed his property, had impregnated his malamute.

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