6th graders have sex in class w/teacher present

[StruckingFuggle]

[quote="Deacon";p="722801"]How the hell does two horny kids sneaking a quickie in a dark corner of the shop class building equate to a failure of sex ed?[/quote]

No one really said it did, the dismal failure of sex education in the US pretty much sprung up as a closely related topic that took on a sublife of its own. Bigity or Blaze said something like "don't people teach their kids sex ed?" - and then someone (Wocket, I, a few others) chimed in "no, they don't really do so" and then it grew from there as a mostly seperate topic.

[quote="BusteeQT";p="722800"]Most of our Sex Ed came in 8th grade health class, although there were a few kids who had to sit out because their parents had signed the form saying they'd prefer to teach it at home.[/quote]

And you know, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts (what does that even mean, anyway?) that they didn't teach the kids much on their own.

[Deacon]

I'm amazed that STDs weren't as widespread and teen pregnancy as rampant in 1950 as it is today. I mean, really, the dumb fuckers back then weren't even handing out condoms!

[StruckingFuggle]

Ugh. And you have the gall to criticize me on feigning ignorance to make a point? Ha!

Well ... I'm sure sailors were disease ridden and there were lots of pregnant dockwhores, so the conditions were still rampant, just in a different part of society. The reason they weren't isn't due to a lack of education back then, so much as it is due to likely largely irrevocable changes in society that haven't been matched with the necessary evolutions of education to deal with the fact. More kids these days will be having sex, its pretty much a fact of life. And yet most people would rather bury their head in the sand and ignore it, instead of deal with that in a meaningful way ... That's why you see more STDs and pregnancies among teens these days - becuase we don't deal well with the fact that they're having more sex.

Next time try harder if you're going to try again.

[wocket]

Deacon, as somebody who actually talks to her 61-year-old parents about sex, let me fill you in on something:
It was happening back then too.

The difference, most "shamed" girls got sent away to various institutions until the baby was born or until they went crazy and died from the STD they contracted, and the issue was swept under the rug because it would offend everyone's sensibilities if premarital sex was featured in the news.

[JudgeMental]

I am consistently curious about something.

How does abstinence not work? I don't mean the mechanics, but how is it that it "doesn't work" as a culture?

[wocket]

Pubescent people get curious. They get urges. If they're not completely hideous, they usually find someone to explore those urges with them.
They're more likely to do it if you tell them to absolutely not do it, because they're generally obtuse little shits.
And if you don't teach them how to be safe while doing it, they won't do it safely.

[StruckingFuggle]

What Wocket said.

[Blaze]

[quote="wocket";p="722858"]
They're more likely to do it if you tell them to absolutely not do it, because they're generally obtuse little shits.[/quote]

Well that's a fact. I've often marveled at how FRIGHTENING it is to realize what a moron I was when I was in my early to mid teens. I can think back on a situation, remember how I came to a decision... and I just can't FATHOM how I survived.

And I was a relatively smart one!

[JudgeMental]

Soo.... If something is difficult, and doesn't have a 100% success rate, you should lower your standards?

[Blaze]

Not at all. Just don't expect it to work, necessarily.

[StruckingFuggle]

... /me takes a deep, deep breath.

Even if you want to define it like that, if you consider the costs of not "lowering your standards", ... then YES. Seriously. Just .. fuck. Seriously, JM, are you saying that it's better to continue to plug a program that doesn't work ("doesn't have a 100% success rate is putting the massed and manifest failures of AoE mildly") and use only it than to actually try to ... just ... Seriously.

Why shouldn't people who're not adults and are going to maybe be having sex be able to make informed decisions based on actual facts and DO IT SAFELY? Seriously. Why should you "lower your standards"? In this case because the alternative, keeping them up and foolishly chasing a program that DOES NOT WORK (in my opinion, thankfully), while keeping your head in the sand and refusing to talk about or base education on what happens when it doesn't, GETS PEOPLE FUCKED UP AND KNOCKED UP.

Why do you seem to want that?

[Blaze]

Now, Judgemental knows I'm a Christian, as he is, so hopefully if I say it, it won't trigger some sort of immediate reaction.

For you and I, Judgemental, Abstinence till marriage is the goal to aspire to. For others, abstinence till you're READY, meaning enough of an adult to make good decisions and know what the heck you're doing, is the goal to aspire to. I don't think ANYONE would debate that.

However, to say that anything besides that, any other goals we might try to reach ALONG with that, would be pure failures is putting it very wrongly. You know as well as I do that it's a sin to damage your own body. Don't you think, at the very least, God would be happy you were taking precautions to protect yourself? If nothing else?

[Deacon]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="722808"]That's why you see more STDs and pregnancies among teens these days - becuase we don't deal well with the fact that they're having more sex.[/quote]
I thought it was more the "having more sex" part that least to more STDs and teen pregnancies.

Next time try harder if you're going to try again.

What, to catch an STD or knock up a teenager?

[JudgeMental]

Where did I say Abstinence-Only? I'm more practical than that, though I don't believe in handing out needles to junkies (free condoms, in other words - I've heard that they're given out sometimes). I am NOT against teaching safe sex, but to not even consider abstinence an option...

My last post was supposed to be longer but my computer hiccuped and I lost it.

Anyway, the summary of what I was going to say was that abstinence is something you can't just teach at school. It requires a community of support. There's a reason that you seem to find older virgins in "groups" such as me and my friends; it's because we implicitly support each other.

Blaze, I don't really consider abstinence to be a goal to aspire to; I think of it as common sense. Worried about STD's, pregnancy, and weird emotional entanglements? Then don't bother with it! Even safe sex isn't completely safe, as accidents do happen. I know my view on that is rare, but it's not THAT uncommon.

Now, I want to repeat myself clearly. I do NOT think abstinence-only programs work. It's like building a fortress in the middle of a plain with only one wall. But, I do NOT think that abstinence should be left on the sidelines. I don't disagree with teaching safe sex, because yes, sex does happen.

Fuggle, take a chill pill. My head is not up my ass, so don't worry. I happen to have an outside view of the sex-ed system, since I've had two groups of friends; those who were homeschooled and not exposed to sex-ed classes, and those who HAVE been exposed to sex-ed. And so far as I can tell, sex-ed only throws fuel on the fire. Yes, abstinence is hard, but how hard is it when you're being SHOWN various ways to "do it"? I need to find some material taught at sex-ed (the internet seems to be useless there -_-) to make any specific judgment on that. The sex-ed system is more or less a black box to me. I know some of what goes on in side it, but not in too much detail.

Here's my rant about sex-ed though. In school, you have history class, writing class, math class, etc etc. Most of those classes, the only impact they have in the real-world (during school years, anyway) is in how much homework you have. Sex is real and in your face, no question there. So, what is an hour or two a week going to do to teach kids about making smart decisions in real life regardless of what you're trying to teach about sexuality?

That's where it goes back to my comment about culture. I'm not talking about nation-wide culture or standards, I'm talking about local culture as in friends and family. All the people I know who were virgins until marriage managed it not because somebody told them "sex is bad, mmmk?" and left them to it. It's because they were with people who supported them, and agreed with their ideals. THAT'S how it works. Sex-ed has nothing to do with that.

OK, if somebody misunderstands anything I wrote, that's fine. I can elaborate more on anything you wish. I'm just trying to explain that the views being shown are far too limited for the subject.

[LQDMTL]

This thread makes baby jesus cry.