Did you hear about the new tanks for the French Army?

[Deacon]

Phong, well said.

[jnagyjr]

I like the French, they make good wine.

[HTRN]

Why would you want to make wine from the French? You get better results using grapes.


HTRN

[jnagyjr]

Good one (:

[LQDMTL]

Actually one of the pitfalls that helped stop hitler was his growing interest in building only the biggest, heaviest machinery he could force his industry to manufacture. It compounded the cost of the war unnecessarily and slowed production. By contrast, Russia and America focused primarily on mass-producable war machines that were easier to transport, faster and cheaper to manufacture and less of an impact should they be lost / destroyed.

Weather was also a contributing factor in Russia, but was only 1 piece of the puzzle. As the war drug on there was also a tendency by german forces to simply throw their people at the front lines of allied forces hoping to overbear them with numbers, and in the age of guns that's not really too wise an approach.

I'm not saying those were the only factors, but they were large contributors. So really, attacking Russia wasn't in itself a mistake. He probably should have waited until he shored up the south before turning on Russia, or at least waited for warmer weather. Had he waited for summer and focused on quick, cheap war machinery like everyone else we could all be speaking German right now.

Then again it's way too easy to look back and say "had they done this...", etc. Hindsight n such. And I'm also pretty sure that the majority of us are happy they didn't win the war.

[tankkisankari]

[quote="LQDMTL";p="635736"] there was also a tendency by german forces to simply throw their people at the front lines of allied forces hoping to overbear them with numbers, and in the age of guns that's not really too wise an approach.[/quote]

Wasn't it just the opposite? Soviets threw division after division against the German troops who with better training and equipment wore them out.
Soviets had lot more people and materials to spend than germans, they didn't bother with finesse, just brute force.

[Bigity]

Germans did not employ human wave attacks in WWII. German equipment just didn't operate well in the conditions in the Soviet Union. The soldiers did not function well in the conditions. Napoleon found out the same thing when he tried it.

The industry part is more accurate, but Hitler liked the big things, not lots of little things. He was also loathe to take away resources from projects he liked and put them towards projects that were effective.

[Deacon]

[quote="Bigity";p="635823"]German equipment just didn't operate well in the conditions in Germany. The soldiers did not function well in the conditions.[/quote]
Did you mean they don't operate well in the conditions in Russia, instead?

[Bigity]

lol yea

[Spongiform]

That reminds me, I haven't seen Makh around lately. Where did he go?

[LQDMTL]

I've read a few interviews with WW2 vets who claim experiencing endless waves of german troops in some battles. Battles where the germans, for whatever reason, came at them with no artillary and just seemed to strom at them hoping numbers would win out. My great uncle was also in the war and some of the very few stories he's been willing to tell described similar incidents. I wan't meaning to imply that they just marched hundreds of thousands of guys in lines across a field toward automatic fire without a care. But they certainly threw caution to the wind and blindly charged in several occasions, which I believe was a byproduct of the fact that their artillary and heavy machinery supply was being depleted at the end of the war, and was also less mobile and harder to get into good support positions near the end of the conflict (thanks to blown bridges, destroyed rail lines, destroyed portions of the autobahn, etc).

But how much of that is fluff, I couldn't say. I wasn't there. and my great uncle wasn't on the front lines, he was a tail gunner, was shot down and became a prisoner of war, among other things.

Anyway, industry and the choices Hitler made in that regard probably contributed to most of the reasons germany lost. But hey, that's a good thing.

Example of one of those stories: here

[Bigity]

I'd say yea, by the end of the war, they had much less artillery and panzer support, and the soldiers were under heavy pressure to break through Allied lines, and might have attacked more directory, but human wave attacks is what the Soviets did. At least the German soldiers all had rifles and gear. Russian soldiers had to share rifles until enough of them died to have enough to go around.

Watch the scene from Enemy at the Gates. That is a human wave attack.

[Arminius]

[quote="LQDMTL";p="635848"]I've read a few interviews with WW2 vets who claim experiencing endless waves of german troops in some battles. But how much of that is fluff, I couldn't say.[/quote]
You're probably refering to the Battle of the Bulge (or Battle of the Ardennes) during winter 1944-1945. Hitler wanted to push back the allies at all cost. He had the army to do it, but no fuel for his tanks and a poor air support. Hitler took those troops from the defense in Germany behind the Siegfried line. Most of his generals were against that idea. He should have taken those troops and dig em in.

[quote="Bigity";p="635854"]Russian soldiers had to share rifles until enough of them died to have enough to go around.[/quote]
Well, they had to in the early years. And especially at Stalingrad where their army was sent unprepared and unequiped. From what I've read, Stalingrad is probably the last place on earth in history I would like to be.

[The Cid]

El Matto, I don't like the French much either. But to disgrace their people by using them in a LAWYER joke? Come on, they're excruciating but they're not THAT bad.

[tankkisankari]

[quote="Bigity";p="635823"]Germans did not employ human wave attacks in WWII. German equipment just didn't operate well in the conditions in the Soviet Union. The soldiers did not function well in the conditions. Napoleon found out the same thing when he tried it.
[/quote]
A bigger reason IMO for Germans not winning in Russia was logistics, not the fancy equipment(altough it wasn't as robust as the Soviet stuff), Logistics were a nightmare, trucks could move because mud, not because of their higher technical level , planes couldn't bring supplies because of bad weather and lack of fuel. That meant no fuel, no food, no ammo, no parts for equipment.

Soviet equipment while simpler was also build with cheap materials which led to poorer performance.
For example if my memory serves me right the kill ratio of a Tiger was about 5/1 compared to T34 (which includes tanks that were destroyed by germans so that Soviets couldn't get them)