Virginia Tech Shooting

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StruckingFuggle
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Post by StruckingFuggle » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:38 am

Deacon: Yes, I brought up a machete. And then Rikku started talking about stealth stalk stabbing people, with a knife, not a machete, and I did say more than once that it shouldn't be that easy... to which she seems to have said "no, it would be", and it's that, not this madman with a big hacking longknife or whatever, that I was addressing in my question.

Watch fewer Tarantino movies.
Didn't get the idea from a Tarantino movie. Got it from some guy on the radio. Yeah, he coulda been lying that he was a cop, but ... why would that only happen in Tarantino movies?



And Scowdich, I'm not sure how much I'd trust a CHL course to make people safe to competently carry a gun. I mean, "People that are likely to have a concealed-carry permit - be they civilians or police - MUST go through training in safety when handling their firearm" is a nice thought, but how prepared is the average civilian after only a fifty-round shooting test in an unstressed situation, a seven hour or so lecture, and a written test on the laws? I mean, that's all it takes in Texas, and I hear we're not even the easiest.

After that? Oh yeah. They're definitely ready for livefire urban combat. I'd absolutely trust them with my life to open fire.

... ach, hold on, choking on the sarcasm...

/me coughs
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Post by cavedog » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:40 am

I got rid of my handguns when I knew my marriage was doomed and my daughter was a baby. Now that she is older, and the ex-wife has other men to torture, it's time to shop for a new carry weapon. I find that over the past few days I miss my old Combat Commander, even with it's ancient design and limited capacity. I carried it through several brush wars and a few hilltops and never had to use it. But I find myself in a funk, wishing I was there in VT with it, to stop the horror.

If someone wants to run amok and kill others, it is up to each of us to protect ourselves and our families. LEO's can't be everywhere, and while they do a fine job, they can not diagnose the wacko's like the shooter at VT.
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Post by Deacon » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:36 am

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="733897"]
Watch fewer Tarantino movies.
Didn't get the idea from a Tarantino movie. Got it from some guy on the radio. Yeah, he coulda been lying that he was a cop, but ... why would that only happen in Tarantino movies?[/quote]
I thought that was obvious. Maybe you believe people really do sometimes do a flip while jumping from rooftop to rooftop and fire an uzi at full auto with pinpoint accuracy, too.

Are you still refusing to acknowledge the attempt to perpetrate this kind of thing that was foiled because two of the students retrieved their weapons?
After that? Oh yeah. They're definitely ready for livefire urban combat. I'd absolutely trust them with my life to open fire.
I would much rather have them there than not.
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Post by Mav » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:47 am

My apologies HTRN, I believe gun control laws have set the limit to ten rounds for all weapons sold in California. I was unaware the situation was different outside the state. However, even with a 15 round capacity, or even an extended magazine, he would have had to have had an aim bot loaded to have successfully killed 31 people without reloading.

I figure as facts come in one or two of my points may be refuted (as just noted), but the overall arguement should stand steady. Especially regarding my digression torwards the media. And, even without reloading, it would take a signifigant amount of time to successfully fire 31 bullets into 31 different people.

In regards to the more or less off topic debate of gun control, Deacon, stop playing so much WoW (and Rikku). People will still scream while being stabbed, or loudly gurgle blood from their throat so that other people scream. A knife also does not carry the same fear factor as a gun for most citizens. But I'm just pointing out the reality of the arguement, I do not support gun control any further than what is already in place. As far as knives go, I carry a 4" flick blade on my hip (length of my palm, guestimate), and while intimidating, I try not to overestimate its usefulness.

Though to counter my own arguement that it is absoultely retarded to state that you could kill 31 people with a knife, I also would have told you it was absolutely retarded to state that you could have killed 31 people with two hand guns until earlier this week.
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Post by StruckingFuggle » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:56 am

Are you still refusing to acknowledge the attempt to perpetrate this kind of thing that was foiled because two of the students retrieved their weapons?
Noooo, but I DO not think that an argument for "something could go wrong" is refuted by a single case of it not.
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Post by Deacon » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:04 am

You know what, Fuggle? Every time you get in your car something could go wrong. You could jump like the Dukes of Hazzard over an opening draw bridge. You better avoid it. Just because there was this one time when something didn't go wrong does not refute the possibility that it could, after all, and it's no argument in favor of the only reasonable mode of transportation in your area.

Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:53 am:

Some additional news: the dude was not a gamer. Don't tell that to Jack Thompson, of course. This guy had to have "rehearsed" it by playing Halo or whatever, which most likely "pushed him over the edge and actually, literally, train him to do what he did." Of course, the dumbass news anchor introduces him as an "expert in school shootings" rather than "anti-video-game activist" and praised him as being, "so eloquent."

"The worst school shooting on the planet's history prior to this was in Germany. Robert Steinhauser killed 16. Authorities in Germany went to his home and found 52 shooter games that he'd immersed himself in, most notably Counter-Strike Half-Life, which was his game of choice even to the point of dressing up like the hero of that game for his assault. So that involvement of video games in that instance actually changed the elections in Germany and has changed the law in Germany because of the central role of these murder simulation games in that event."

So many things are so wrong with that, the least of which is that there's no particular "hero" in Counter-Strike, and that it actually sets a stage where you get the opportunity to prevent terrorist acts. Asshole. And by the way, he was dressed basically like any ninja/terrorist/robber. He was in all black with a ski mask.
Last edited by Deacon on Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rikku_Chan » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:06 am

I haven't played WoW in almost 2 years, I think Sats totally deleted my character a long time ago when I moved out of her apartment.

Anyway, a knife is still the most effective way to kill someone quietly in an enclosed environment. Only a fool would "slit their throat" like you're suggesting. They taught us to go for the inferior Vena Cava or abdominal aorta in the mid to lower back when eliminating a target with a knife or bayonet, that way you can cover their mouth with your free hand just incase they try to scream, and they actually die faster of internal blood loss than they would if you slit their throat. It's far less noticable as the majority of the blood would be absorbed by the clothing.

Honestly, and this is totally speculative, it wouldn't be that difficult at all for a special operative to score any number of kills in a college setting with a knife before the authorities discovered anything was amiss and instituted a lockdown.

Errr, I'd better stop before I start freaking people out.
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Post by StruckingFuggle » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:07 am

Honestly, and this is totally speculative, it wouldn't be that difficult at all for a special operative to score any number of kills in a college setting with a knife before the authorities discovered anything was amiss and instituted a lockdown.
Well, yes, but we've pretty much been talking about bob off the street, not someone with special operatives training, haven't we? o.O
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Post by Deacon » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:20 am

From what I understand, the guys in Rwanda with machetes have undergone several years of extensive special-ops training, so yeah, totally.
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Post by StruckingFuggle » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:21 am

Honestly, and this is totally speculative, it wouldn't be that difficult at all for a special operative to score any number of kills in a college setting with a knife before the authorities discovered anything was amiss and instituted a lockdown.
Since when is a machete a knife? And remember, we're also discussing a stealth component re: the knife, here - which is something that a machete pretty much fundamentally lacks.

Those Rwandan fuckheads aren't exactly germaine, here.


Edit: you seem to be confused, so let me lay the whole thing out again.

Rikku_Chan said pretty much that the anti-gun bit makes no sense, because even if he had no gun, he still had lethal intent, and he would have found an another weapon to you.

To which I said that, while that's maybe true, a gun is a powerful tool - if he didn't have a gun, he'd probably have amassed a much small body count.

To which she replied that that's bs, he could have done just as well with a knife.

I said I didn't think it'd be that easy, and she said you could (easily?) stealth it up and cause just as much havoc before an alarm went up. I still doubt that, but it was based on that statement (A), coupled with her statement that if people had their own guns, they could have protected themselves (B), I said that A and B seem fairly incompatable.

To explain, if we assume A to be true, then a gun is no protection. If you can't raise an alarm or defend yourself from this hypothetical sneaky knifeman killer who has no trouble doing so, then a gun isn't much of a help, either. You wouldn't get a chance to use it, right?

Therefore, if A, then not B: the guns would do nothing to protect the wielders. They could protect people against gunmen (except from a distance), yes, but logically then - if the guns are no protection against knives, wouldn't people with the Lethal Intent That Will Win Through (another seeming posited statement of hers) switch to knives?

If A holds true, then B doesn't seem to make much sense - guns then wouldn't offer much protection from people who want to kill, they would seem to instead merely redefine what the weapon of choice is.
Last edited by StruckingFuggle on Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Deacon » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:27 am

Whoops. I thought your point was that if we keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, then madmen will have no other effective ways to kill a large number of people in a locked room. Rikku_Chan even pointed out that in the right hands, some other weapons could actually be more effective. In general it's a pretty pointless discussion. Then again, I'm not really sure you have a point, really, other than to mess with people.
Last edited by Deacon on Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mav » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:29 am

I'd refute the statement about the special ops guy, but as said, Mr. Cho defeated my arguement by example. So yes, he probably could.

Le sigh.
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Post by Rikku_Chan » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:47 am

I lost track of the point of this conversation a long time ago. So I'll just close with saying that guns and knives don't kill people...




I do! :mrgreen:
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Post by Blaze » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:59 am

So, what you're saying is, for my next rampage, I should arm my self with Rikku?
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Post by Seir » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:46 am

[quote="Rikku_Chan";p="733966"]I lost track of the point of this conversation a long time ago. [/quote]

I think the point of this thread is that there are certain posters who should be stabbed. Anyways...

Hiyas, Rikku.

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