Virginia Tech Shooting

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[quote="HTRN";p="734569"]Something interesting has come to light - apparently, SSRI's cause psychotic behavior in a small precentage of the poeple taking it. Cho for instance was switched to Luvox, after complaining to a doctor about homicidal impulses and dreams while on another SSRI drug(I believe it was Prozac he was taking at the time).[/quote]

*groans and holds head* Ya know. So far there is about one or two differences I've heard between this guy and me. This isn't one of them.

Luvox and Prozac are both SSRI's.

[HTRN]

I repeat: THERE IS A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF SSRI USERS WHO REACT BADLY TO THEM, MANIFESTING IN PSYCHOTIC BEHAVIOR. This is well documented. Almost all drugs have side effects of some kind, and remember now, you're screwing with somebody's brain chemistry here..

Cho for instance, when treated for depression, got switched from one SSRI to another, when he started having homicidal and suicidal impulses after starting a regimen.

I'm no "Scientologist". I have nothing against chemical treatment of ailments WHERE APPROPRIATE. What I do have is it being handed out like candy in order to make people more managable, like alot of schools are doing with Ritalin, when children behave like, well, children.

It's funny that there were no school shootings before SSRI started being dispensed to large segments of the market....


HTRN

[Arres]

[quote="Soggymoggy";p="734506"]That I'll bite on. But you'd think they'd pick a better service wide rifle. Oh well. I don't have to fire the knuckle skinner. Unless I suddenly change services, somehow, during basic. That'd be a trick. They'd probably ride me like a horse between Melbourne and Kapooka.[/quote]

I'm not sure what the "knuckle skinner" rifle is. The M16 A2 service rifle is the one we currently use. While it has it's issues, it is actually a very functional rifle. It is easy to maintain, even in combat conditions will fire when RIDICULOUSLY filthy. The parts can almost all be swapped out if they break, and has a large degree of accuracy out to 500 yards, with VERY little training.

The biggest problem that our service member have with it, is that it is a rifle. While it is wonderful for trench warfare, urban combat is a different story. It's too long. The last time I checked, the favored replacement was a carbine. Shorter, which made use indoors a lot easier, but longer and more stable than a pistol, so you could still shoot it down the street.

[Soggymoggy]

I was not talking about the m-16. I was talking about the Steyr Aug. Feel privileged, I even got my friend to give me the model number, Austeyr F88-S. And last I checked? Melbourne? Australia, not America.

[StruckingFuggle]

It's funny that there were no school shootings before SSRI started being dispensed to large segments of the market....

Really? What about Charles Whitman, then?

Also, just because a guy's on SSRIs, and they might cause homicidal urges, doesn't mean that THEY drove him over the edge, or even that he didn't have them in the first place. Maybe it's like lung cancer to someone with lukemia.


Also, another theory, that's an interesting read, if nothing else. Yeah, eventually it goes into "and it's all the more easier because they can get guns", but the first half does raise a new (and interesting) point.

[Soggymoggy]

Jacklash!
Oops! MSNBC doesn't like you much anymore! Even though you appear with them below.
And just to show how badly behaved he is to contrary points of view.

[HTRN]

So, the exception proves the rule? Also, I liked the bit about how guns did it. Funny, I thought Charles Whitman did. Maybe I'm mistaken.. Guns don't kill people. Knives don't kill people. It's the individual wielding said knife or said gun that does it. Banning firearms is ridiculous - look at Britain, where legal handgun ownership is nonexistant, yet their awash in illegal ones. People are bringing them in from outside the country into GB, by the container load(and yes, it happens here too - They siezed a container full of full auto AK's a decade ago at the Port of Los Angeles).

Like I said, I'm curious as to how many of these spree killers are on SSRI's. I'm not saying we should stop prescribing them, I am saying that if they are part of the equation, then perhaps there should be stricter measures on their dispensation, particularly negative reactions to them by patients.



HTRN

[K^2]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="734487"]

Or are you going to tell me that no free state should have mandatory school for children either?

They probably shouldn't; though at the same time, the consequences of that might be disasterous (I'm not sure), whereas that's not the case with not having national service.[/quote]
So VT shooting wasn't disastrous enough for you? As it was mentioned earlier, people with military training would not just huddle together and wait to be shot. Not all of them, at any rate. You'd still have a few dead, but not 30+ people.

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="734487"]Wait, how would national service help? If everyone at 18 is shanghaid and dragooned into the service of the state for a few years, won't you always have a rather large standing army? I mean, every year that's going to be a lot of people.[/quote]
You mean, what is the difference between having an army with constantly changing troops who are currently just being trained, and having a standing army of well trained contract soldiers? The difference is that the later is much more adapt for invasion even in smaller numbers, while former makes a much better defensive force. Size isn't the main issue here.

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="734487"]And seriously, dragging off every child and conscripting them, regardless of wishes or plans or philosophies ... Jefferson may bring up Greece and Rome, but
A: those were, truly, hardly model societies, and
B: Is this seriously and straightfacedly a value in keeping with "democracy" (and "liberty") ... and it seriously doesn't bring to mind the word you dislike, "empire"?[/quote]
I don't dislike empires. There is a time and place for them. Now isn't it. We aren't living in a world of multiple warring states. We live in the world of a handful of super-powers, a war between which would have unimaginable consequences.

And yes, the whole idea isn't entirely democratic, but you can't have a perfect democracy. You can just try to make things more democratic and give people more freedom. There cannot be democracy in a state where citizens are ignorant. That's why it is necessary to have compulsory education. It is also impossible to have democracy in a land where people are too afraid to or don't know how to fight to protect themselves and others. That's why mandatory military service will do any country good.

[StruckingFuggle]

It is also impossible to have democracy in a land where people are too afraid to or don't know how to fight to protect themselves and others. That's why mandatory military service will do any country good.

And you can't come up with a way to accomplish that without forcing everyone to play slave of the state to avoid a prison term?

(which, contrary to the protests I imagine are coming from certain people, is not comparing military service, in general, to slavery. In part because right now it's a choice. But when you give people no choice but to enlist (or go to jail or not be a citizen or whatever punishment is to be foisted upon them - in that sense, every slave "had a choice"), and force them to give up all their rights and to serve in the service of the government with not much real anf significant will of their own where it goes against or not with the will of the state ... that, though, is slavery. With uniforms.)

[HTRN]

[quote="K^2";p="734648"]We live in the world of a handful of super-powers, a war between which would have unimaginable consequences.[/quote]

Uhm, actually we live in a world with a sole superpower - the United States of America. A world where there are also several extremely strong regional powers, like China and Russia, who are nuclear armed.


HTRN

[K^2]

[quote="StruckingFuggle";p="734650"]And you can't come up with a way to accomplish that without forcing everyone to play slave of the state to avoid a prison term?[/quote]
If you have a better idea, I am listening. But otherwise, we can't do nothing just because there might be a better way.

Uhm, actually we live in a world with a sole superpower - the United States of America. A world where there are also several extremely strong regional powers, like China and Russia, who are nuclear armed.

A union between any two of these regional powers will be enough to counter US. So it's close enough for this purpose. Either way, this isn't a good time for an Empire.

[The Cid]

Penn State pays tribute to Virginia Tech at PSU's annual spring football game.

Figured it would be appropriate.

[Bigity]

Part of the problem with stuff like this..even people within thier rights to defend themselves, are STILL painted as criminals and even persecuted.

For example, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267969,00.html

You have cops saying they'd rather people just lay down at take it instead of defending themselves.

Awful, simply awful.


EDIT: Thanks for the head's up about the typo

[adciv]

Bigity, You included a '.' in the ling at the end of html

I'm hoping this is an "Only in California" story. Seems all they try and do is turn people into victims over there.

[Deacon]

That made me fucking sick. That was horrible.