Warner dropping HD-DVD, moving to Blu-ray exclusively

[Brian]

Lots of news all over Engadget HD and the web, saying that Toshiba is expected to announce the official end of HD DVD, most likely tomorrow. I have to say, that makes me quite sad, especially since I already invested some into HD DVD.

Oh well - hopefully this means that Blu-ray prices will drop if more hardware makers come on board and everyone teams up to push towards the glory that is HD video.

[Brian]

It's officially over: HD DVD is dead.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live ... -in-tokyo/

No more HD DVD support from Toshiba, with plans to stop it all by March.

Now, I kind of wish I hadn't invested in the format -- I mean, I still have my player and it works, but, well, it just sucks. HD DVD was a better tech. Maybe they can integrate some of the better pieces into Blu-ray.

Here's to hoping MS comes out with a Blu-ray Xbox 360 addon soon, something preferably cheaper than winding up buying a PS3 just for lovely HD movies.

[StruckingFuggle]

Aw. Boo-ish.

I didn't like either format, and I didn't like how HD-DVD was MS-backed, but at least it was (supposedly) region-free...

[Arc Orion]

So I take it you have some reason as to why you dislike them both? Some feature that you wish they had, or some bits of technology that they both get wrong?

[StruckingFuggle]

Yeah. BluRay had region encoding, was backed by Sony, was more expensive, and was flimsy-er. HDDVD was backed by Microsoft (worse than Sony), and the big one for me: had much less space on it.

Guess it's a moot point, now... A third option would've been nice, though.

[Arc Orion]

How often do you need to save more than 30GB of data? Flimsy-er? You mean flimsier? These are compact discs. Are you actually smashing them about? How does who backs it matter? They're disc formats. Large corporations are going to support them, and based on what I've read from you, ANY large corporation could back a format and you'd probably have problems with them.

A third option would have SUCKED. I've been looking forward to one or the other dying off, or having both supported properly by various drives. I want to know that the discs I buy today will still be usable a year from now, and if we had three options, there'd still probably be confusion going on.

[Brian]

To be fair, I do believe that the flimsier quality he's referring to is that it's not the same medium as DVD/HD DVD. It's a much thinner media that is much more susceptible to scratches.

Also, if you're hating on the formats because of MS or Sony support, well, to be frank - that's stupid. Sony is only one of 18 companies on the BDA board, although it is admittedly one of the larger players and one of the founders. Sony was also one of the founding members of the DVD Forum, which are the owners of both the DVD and HD DVD format. Sony and others founded the BDA when the DVD Forum went with HD DVD. Microsoft had a hand in HD DVD as their HDi format wound up in it, but they're really not a big player aside from the fact that they're one of the largest sellers of HD DVD consumer hardware in the form of the 360 add-on. Saying that Sony is Blu-ray and MS is HD DVD is just really misinformed.

Admittedly, Fuggle, you probably have little interest in the topic, and therefore haven't really looked deeply into it, so your lack of knowledge is understandable.

As for capacities, Blu-ray was the eventual winner no matter what. Both formats had the eventual theoretical limit of ten layers, meaning that HD DVD would cap out at ~150GiB while Blu-ray could hit ~250GiB, but again, those capacities didn't matter much yet. Toshiba was gearing up to announce the triple-layer HD DVD, with a 51GB disc to counter the Blu-ray double-layer 50GB job, and after Warner jumped ship, they basically started looking at how to close things up. Considering the size of a film in full 1080p floats around 15GB for a shorter film and could easily crack 20GB for a longer one, and the desire for multiple audio tracks and PIP commentaries and stuff, the higher capacities were an extra edge that Blu-ray had, even though the majority of commercial releases these days still leans on the single-layer 25GB discs.

Capacity is about the only thing Blu-ray has on top of HD DVD, IMO, what with the hardier media, the more standard hardware components, and the lack of region that comes with HD DVD, but, alas, it's dead and that's that. Companies are already moving on. I'm hoping to hit up some sort of Best Buy HD DVD liquidation or something and get some movies on the cheap, and then I'll go watch them and mourn or something.

[Jezebel]

On the (sort of) plus side, for those that already have HD-DVD players, maybe now HD-DVDs will be dropping in price, allowing you to pick up some movies on the cheap.

[StruckingFuggle]

To be fair, I do believe that the flimsier quality he's referring to is that it's not the same medium as DVD/HD DVD. It's a much thinner media that is much more susceptible to scratches.

As I heard, yeah, that's what I'd meant.

Sony is only one of 18 companies on the BDA board, although it is admittedly one of the larger players and one of the founders.

Aha. Continuing from above: I thought, for some reason, it was predominantly / "almost only" Sony, same with MS and HDDVD.

Saying that Sony is Blu-ray and MS is HD DVD is just really misinformed.

Admittedly, Fuggle, you probably have little interest in the topic, and therefore haven't really looked deeply into it, so your lack of knowledge is understandable.

Guilty.

[Brian]

No worries, I know that this arena isn't one that everyone plays in. Seriously, I now have a lot of knowledge that was effectively rendered useless for anything other than Internet debate, now that HD DVD is dead. Such is the cost of being an early adopter, I suppose.

I will say I'm kind of looking forward to possibly picking up some cheap HD DVD discs now -- things like the Matrix super duper every movie in the set combo box that were ridiculously priced at around $100 are now down to $45 on Best Buy's site, and I'm sure we'll see more cleaning house -- but at the same time, do I really want to invest in a format that I know is on the way out? I'm not sure. Lots of internal debate there that isn't worth dumping out into text.

The war is over now, but I'm probably staying out of the market for a Blu-ray player for at least a few months, if not waiting until Christmas. I'm really hoping the rumors of MS pushing out a Blu-ray addon by May are true.

I will admit that in a way, it's kind of nice to have a reason to buy a Blu-ray player, because for as much as I prefer the HD DVD format, there are several films that I'd love to own in HD, but are Blu-ray only.

[StruckingFuggle]

.... huh. I forgot... I opened "quote" for both posts in new tabs, and forgot to put them together. Here's my reply to Arc.

How often do you need to save more than 30GB of data?

I could burn three of them right now, and then consolidate a lot of my other data dvds into a smaller, more portable number of discs that use less sleeves.

Flimsy-er? You mean flimsier?

Yes, that's the word I forgot, that's what I meant.

How does who backs it matter? They're disc formats. Large corporations are going to support them, and based on what I've read from you, ANY large corporation could back a format and you'd probably have problems with them.

Well, to one extent or another, but the last thing that either MS or Sony, of all people, need is another market to dominate. However... see below.

A third option would have SUCKED. I've been looking forward to one or the other dying off, or having both supported properly by various drives. I want to know that the discs I buy today will still be usable a year from now, and if we had three options, there'd still probably be confusion going on.

Why would three never resolve where two would?

[Arc Orion]

I could burn three of them right now, and then consolidate a lot of my other data dvds into a smaller, more portable number of discs that use less sleeves.

So, once?

Well, to one extent or another, but the last thing that either MS or Sony, of all people, need is another market to dominate. However... see below.

Neither of them would have wholly dominated the market. As has already been pointed out, they aren't the only players in this game, making it moot.

Why would three never resolve where two would?

I never said three wouldn't resolve. I said the whole two different standards thing would still be continuing. With more competing formats, it's safe to assume that the added competition would make for a longer lasting fight over which is supreme.

Also, it was my understanding that several companies that produce Blu-ray discs have added a coating to their discs that actually makes them more resistant to scratching than DVDs.

[adciv]

How often do you need to save more than 30GB of data?

Lets see, each season of Star Trek takes up 6.5 DVDs, at around 6GB per disk, say 39GB per season. Now, if it were HD encodings, we'd be talking at least 20mbit for 720p/1080i, 9GB per hour, say 3 hours for that. 1080P would only allow half that. Getting the idea now? Then there's backing up your files. I could probably burn ~20 or so, easy.

[Brian]

Also, it was my understanding that several companies that produce Blu-ray discs have added a coating to their discs that actually makes them more resistant to scratching than DVDs.

While this may be true, it would only add to the production costs. HD DVD used media that has been well-used and mass produced, keeping costs cheaper. Many studios have said outright that production of HD DVDs is simply cheaper. However, consumers seemed to go Blu, so companies followed.

Really, it'd seem that marketing and some fortunate exclusive IP simply won out. Transformers was strong for HD DVD, but it wasn't enough, and Sony combined with ABC/Disney formed a huge lock of great IPs.

[Felan]

Really, it'd seem that marketing and some fortunate exclusive IP simply won out. Transformers was strong for HD DVD, but it wasn't enough, and Sony combined with ABC/Disney formed a huge lock of great IPs.

I think that blu-ray also had a much larger view time on advertisements and whatnot too. I didnt even see a HD-DVD ad till late last year on most mainstream tv shows. Compared to blu-ray which disney and sony were all over the place with, I think Toshiba was relying too much that it was "better than DVD" by name mostly.