The 2008 NFL Playoffs

[Dr. Tower]

With the exceptions of those stadiums that ARE in the midst of cities (did I miss any up there?), I don't understand why you need to pay to park near any other NFL stadium.

Cleveland Browns Stadium is downtown.

[The Cid]

Come to think of it, Atlanta and Pittsburgh play pretty much downtown too. And it seems the Jets have plans, or at least had plans, to move back into NYC.

But still, the majority of stadiums are in nowhere places! Foxboro, for example, consists of a football stadium. I think there is also a hot dog stand. And maybe a bicycle trail.

[ampersand]

Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City isn't exactly in Downtown, but it's basically surrounded by I-435 and I-70. There's some restaurants and hotels fairly close by.

Still, I agree. Parking costs are really out of control. The local sports-talk radio folks are filled with callers lamenting about how despite how bad of a season Kansas City has, they are upping rates to match the $250-$300+ costs found in other NFL venues.

[mikehendo]

For more NFL stupidity, check this out. I thought it was a pretty good article.
http://www.sportsbubbler.com/DisplayTop ... opicID=628

[mikehendo]

I would like to add to his long list of expenses possibly outrageous price of parking.

You, sir, just hit one of my biggest nerves re: the NFL.

Think about your average NFL stadium. With few exceptions (Soldier Field, Seahawks Stadium, Candlestick and the Superdome come to mind), these are not in big cities. New England plays in Foxboro, MA (population: The New England Patriots), both New York teams play in East Rutherford, NJ (population: The New York Giants, Jets, and both New Jersey professional teams--for now), places like Green Bay and Buffalo are already kind of isolated. The Eagles play in Philly, but there's really nothing but other sports venues in their neighborhood. So my question is this: why charge for parking as if parking were scarce?

The Super Bowl is being held in Glendale, AZ. Know what, besides University of Phoenix Stadium, is in Glendale? NOTHING! They could turn the whole town, and the town next to it, into parking lots and nobody would know the difference! You know parking is going to cost a fortune, but why?

With the exceptions of those stadiums that ARE in the midst of cities (did I miss any up there?), I don't understand why you need to pay to park near any other NFL stadium.

Well, it isn't really the NFL charging the outrageous prices for parking so much as the private businesses around the stadiums. Until a friend showed me that there was actually a free place to park another 3 blocks away from where I park when I go to Packers games, I was paying $20 for the right to park in the vicinity of Lambeau.

I cant really blame some of the private people who collect money for allowing cars to park on thier lawns. If someone was parking on my lawn I would sure want something for it. And I suppose all the private businesses and residences figure that people would park there whether they charged them to park or not. So, why not make the easy money..

Although I am willing to bet that you already took all of that into account and were just venting. If that is the case, I totally agree with you. Parking for games is way too expensive.

Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City isn't exactly in Downtown, but it's basically surrounded by I-435 and I-70. There's some restaurants and hotels fairly close by.

Still, I agree. Parking costs are really out of control. The local sports-talk radio folks are filled with callers lamenting about how despite how bad of a season Kansas City has, they are upping rates to match the $250-$300+ costs found in other NFL venues.

$250-$300 per game? thats insane. The club level at Lambeau isn't even $300 a game..

[The Cid]

Although I am willing to bet that you already took all of that into account and were just venting. If that is the case, I totally agree with you. Parking for games is way too expensive.

See, that's a good context to take me in. I vent, adding in some light humor.

In general, I'm sick and tired of the NFL hiding behind its product. They know full well that they are the only league for the world's best American Football players. They have no direct competition the world over, and right now they stand as the only league that has that advantage. Major League Baseball has competition in Japan, Korea and Latin America. The National Basketball Association has competition all over Europe, as does the NHL. But nobody else plays American Football on a 100 yard field under traditional American rules. It's a wonder they haven't yet created a minor league system to drive Division I NCAA Football out of business too. (Again, only league in America without one.)

So it's okay that their officials suck and are all-too-often biased toward the home team. It's okay that they don't do much of anything for retired players suffering long-term problems from their NFL days. It's okay that they look the other way on steroids and Human Growth Hormone. It's okay that they make fans pay out the ass for preseason games, much less regular season and playoff games. It's okay that some fanbases pour more money into the league than others, but the revenue is shared evenly and the salary cap makes even the most popular players look like rentals. It's okay that they have a severe discipline problem popping up throughout the league. It's all okay, because football's just so entertaining.

I wonder how far the league can go before we get sick of it.

[Deacon]

The competition argument is silly. There is no competition for the MLB, NBA, or NHL in the US. I don't care wtf is going on in Korea or Brazil or Latvia. College football is much bigger not only than other college sports (with the exception of the Final Four, maybe), but really overshadows minor leagues by an incredible degree. And most of the things you claim to be sick of are either behind the scenes or satisfied by the laws of supply and demand.

You may be "sick" of the NFL, but your everyday fan isn't.

[The Cid]

That's not news, Deacon. The everyday fan isn't sick of it. They aren't as happy as they used to be though.

Worldwide, there is certainly competition for the world's best baseball, basketball and hockey players. Because of that, it's hard to say that all the best players of the world play in the NHL, or NBA, or Majors. (You've no doubt noticed the increasing international influence on how the professional game is played in America. I.E. the Spurs "international" style of play, I.E. the Detroit Red Wings looking like the old Red Army teams, I.E. baseball's emphasis on sending scouts to Asia and Latin America, and the influx of Japanese, Korean and Latin ballplayers of the last decade.)

It's competition for players, and it drives down the perceived quality of a league. The NFL has no such competition, since virtually nobody outside of the US plays the game to begin with. Not only do the best players play in the NFL, all of the best players play there. You can't say that doesn't give the NFL an advantage over today's NBA, MLB or NHL. (Not when the US doesn't hold the highest recognized international championship in any of those sports.)

[mikehendo]

It's a wonder they haven't yet created a minor league system to drive Division I NCAA Football out of business too. (Again, only league in America without one.)

I was under the impression that NFL Europe and Arena football were the minor leagues of the NFL. Sure they aren't tied to pro teams like the MLB minor league teams are, but they are something. Please correct me if I am wrong Cid..

[ampersand]

NFL Europe got sacked primarily because there wasn't enough interest in Europe for American football. And the only thing that connects Arena football with the NFL is that many of the owners and former players own many of the leagues. Otherwise, the NFL and its teams has nothing to do with the Arena league, although I suspect it may change at some point.

[The Cid]

It's a wonder they haven't yet created a minor league system to drive Division I NCAA Football out of business too. (Again, only league in America without one.)

I was under the impression that NFL Europe and Arena football were the minor leagues of the NFL. Sure they aren't tied to pro teams like the MLB minor league teams are, but they are something. Please correct me if I am wrong Cid..

Let's start with "there's no more NFL Europe." But you're right in that it was a subsidiary of the NFL. Arena Football, while not affiliated with the NFL, has many ties to the league through ex-players and players' family. (Guys like Jon Gruden's brother act as scouts of sorts.)

The problem is that Arena League Football is only vaguely football. Far as I and most people are concerned, the only real "minor league" for the NFL is the NCAA.

Also, Arena League Football has its own minor league!

[Deacon]

Because of that, it's hard to say that all the best players of the world play in the NHL, or NBA, or Majors. You've no doubt noticed the increasing international influence on how the professional game is played in America. I.E. the Spurs "international" style of play, I.E. the Detroit Red Wings looking like the old Red Army teams, I.E. baseball's emphasis on sending scouts to Asia and Latin America, and the influx of Japanese, Korean and Latin ballplayers of the last decade.

Well which is it? First you say the best players aren't in America, then you point out that the best players are routinely brought into America if discovered outside it and seem to be open to integrating various styles of play if shown to be effective.

The US doesn't hold the highest recognized international championship in any of...NBA, MLB or NHL.

WTF are you talking about?

[The Cid]

Well which is it? First you say the best players aren't in America, then you point out that the best players are routinely brought into America if discovered outside it and seem to be open to integrating various styles of play if shown to be effective.

It can be both actually. A number of the world's best players AREN'T in America in baseball, hockey or basketball. Not a majority by any means, but there is a high level of competition in other nations. Enough so that those other leagues are having a major impact on our own.

And we don't hold the highest international championship in any major sport. There is none for football. We hardly even placed at the World Cup. We did not medal at the World Baseball Classic in 2005, nor did we win the gold in 2004's Olympic basketball competition or 2006's Olympic hockey. This is another indicator that many of the best players in the world are abroad.

[Deacon]

Holy shit you sound like a political pundit spinning some sort of weird election-year dog and pony show.

A number? How many of these players are hanging out elsewhere? Why are they hanging out elsewhere? They make more money there? They hate the US? What?

And you've seriously got to be fucking kidding me with this bullshit about the olympics or the World Baseball Classic and such. I know you know better. If you somehow sincerely don't know better, you undermine any credibility you may claim when talking about ANYTHING in this arena. You're seriously saying the best players in the world aren't in the US because the US didn't win the olympics? THEY'RE ALL PLAYING IN THE NBA. They may not have been born in the US, but they are certainly in the US, playing in very US leagues you named! Same with baseball. Cubans and Dominicans and Puerto Ricans and Japanese and anyone else are playing in what? THE MLB! Come on, man, I'm very seriously pissed off that I even have to explain this, and I do so only for those people who might not know already off the top of their head why your statements are just such fucktastic bullshit.

[The Cid]

Actually, Cubans aren't playing Major League Baseball, because by the time they start doing that they've fled the country. And many of the players on the Japanese team that won the World Baseball Classic (over Cuba) played in the Japanese leagues at the time (and most still do, though a few have come over here to cash in on massive paydays). With baseball, there are leagues outside of America with some phenomenal talent. Not all the players come over here because in Cuba they're not allowed, and baseball is played a bit differently in Asia. Pitchers here work more often, the season's longer, and we all speak English. Plus, it's not like the big teams in Japan don't pay their players extremely well. There was once a time you could say that all the world's best ballplayers were in the Major Leagues. Today is not that time.

The NBA pretty much has all the best basketball players in the world. But leagues in Spain and Italy are picking up steam, and starting to develop major talent. Argentina as well. So that might not always be the case--especially since the NBA's commissioner wants to continue to cultivate that international game.

In hockey, some players are just sick of the NHL. After the lockout, the missed season, and the fact that many of the league's best are from Eastern Europe, players are more often considering quitting the NHL and going home to play in leagues in Europe. Add that in with the lukewarm reception hockey gets here and the fact that these guys are worshipped back home, and you're starting to see fewer of those players come over. This is hockey, we're talking about--not everybody CAN get that big payday. So while the super-elite, Alex Ovechkins of the world go to the US, many top-notch players stay home to play where the people speak their language and don't think of hockey as something to watch between basketball games.

EDIT: Waiiiiida second! This hardly has to do at all with my original point! What the Hell did we get on this for?

This had almost NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, and here we are arguing about it. The NFL is the only show in town for professional American football as we know it today. That is the only sport about which you can make a claim like that. Every other sport has several professional leagues. WHAT ARE WE EVEN ARGUING OVER?