The NBA Playoffs

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The Cid
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by The Cid » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:14 pm

Hirschof wrote:Whether or not any of the games were weighted in favor of one team, the entire 08' playoffs have felt.... hokey.
They started on a bad note: the end-of-regular-season news that the Seattle Supersonics were going to leave Seattle for Oklahoma City in a move that seemed premeditated by both the new ownership group and the NBA itself. For this news to come out now only casts more doubt on the NBA, and furthers the belief that the league is more concerned about money than pure competition. These are the kind of incidents that make it easy to believe that the league would rig games as a ratings ploy. What's scary is that the Donaghy scandal, up until Tuesday, wasn't even about the vast NBA conspiracy. It was about gambling.

While the scandal grows and grows, it's only a matter of time before you hear players come into this discussion, either via speculation or actual evidence. NBA stars of late have had a penchant for gambling. LeBron James has a casino built into his house. Charles Barkley is an extreme gambler who earlier in the year owed a casino $400,000. Michael Jordan once went to Atlantic City the night before a playoff game, and a conspiracy theorist will tell you that his two year excursion into minor league baseball was the result of a gambling suspension by the NBA that nobody wanted to become public. (There's no proof of that, if you were wondering, it's just something that's been speculated by many.)

Last season, the NBA All Star weekend was held in Las Vegas. The Sacramento Kings are owned by the Maloof brothers, owners of the Palms casino in Vegas. The idea of expanding to Sin City has been bantered about the NBA recently, and it's picking up steam. The NBA's sister league--literally--has a team in Connecticut named after a casino. The game-fixing that we KNOW about--Donaghy's--was brought about by the gambling community.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by Hirschof » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:30 pm

The Cid wrote:Seattle Supersonics were going to leave Seattle for Oklahoma City
I'm still waiting on the new team name. Hope it isn't lame.

Its funny you bring up all of the gambling connections. I was talking about that with a friend yesterday but I completely forgot about the Maloof brothers and Jordan's problem. I don't follow the WNBA enough to know about the Connecticut Sun and the Mohegan Sun Arena. Goes deeper than I thought.
For this news to come out now only casts more doubt on the NBA, and furthers the belief that the league is more concerned about money than pure competition.
Should be obvious by now.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by ampersand » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:35 pm

Speaking of competition, I like Boston by one in overtime in Game 4. I saw nothing in Game 3 that did not make me think that Los Angeles will be able to blow away Boston. Plus, all of the pretenses are out of the way now.

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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by The Cid » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:58 pm

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...

Welcome to "worse."

EDIT: Holy shit, it's Ralph Nader. Run for your lives.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by Hirschof » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:16 pm

"They were very specific about their questioning, as though they had heard something," Hollins said, according to the Times. "They knew exactly what they were going after."
So when do you think? A week or two before a big break? Doesn't seem like they are wasting any time.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by adciv » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:23 pm

So what's the worst that can happen, if the game fixing is true? The feds shut down the NBA and I never have to hear about Pro-B-Ball again?sounds good to me
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by The Cid » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:51 pm

You HAVE to hear about it? Geez, really? I'd like to see who forces you to hear information about the NBA. That must take some work.
So when do you think? A week or two before a big break? Doesn't seem like they are wasting any time.
I'd say the more pertinent question is "how long until the FBI devotes a branch to investigating sports?" Considering how much time sports figures have spent in court and Congress this year, I'm giving that a month to three.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by adciv » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:03 pm

Cid, have as in defs. 3,4,5,8,10,11,37 and NOT 26. Maybe get would be the better term as I don't think it has as many meanings.

I'm still curious as to what the worst that can happen is.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by Calus » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:19 pm

Fraud charges will be leveled on the NBA, and fans can create a class action lawsuit that would cost the NBA everything. Games being fixed from outside forces can hurt, but games fixed from within kills. The NBA couldn't survive such an event. Nor could any of the other pro sports.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by ampersand » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:46 pm

I found it funny that Nader admit to Dan Patrick on his radio show that he's a Sacramento fan. I also find it very interesting that you have not heard from any owner other than Cuban, especially the Maloof brothers (who just happen to own the Sacramento Kings). If anyone would know about fixing games, it's people who run a Vegas casino.

Again, as I stated before, if I were David Stern, I would put more into a defense than just simply that Donaghue is a desperate man. Maybe it would help if you had a camera in the Referees locker, or maybe you allow the referees to speak to the media after games.

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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by The Cid » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:02 pm

adciv wrote:I'm still curious as to what the worst that can happen is.
Okay. Well, step one is already happening: the erosion of trust. The NBA has millions of fans worldwide, and many sports fans applaud commissioner Stern for the job he has done as the commissioner. At the same time, many other fans are skeptical of the league, to the point that conspiracy theories (see above long-winded tirades) are everywhere among fans of certain teams. Now, one of those conspiracy theories (that the NBA had the referees fix Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals to force a financially lucrative Game 7 that involved the second biggest market in the United States) is all too real. The new revelations, along with Stern's flippant dismissals thereof, have started to raise questions among even the die-hard fans of the league.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the scandal grows and most of what's alleged turns out to be true. Fraud charges will follow. All sorts of shady characters will be uncovered in the investigations, likely including members of organized crime, local politicians, doctors behaving badly and sports agents. Let's just say that we're not going to like what we see when we turn over this stone. People involved--probably the refs themselves, but possibly league officials as well--will go to prison in a great show of "look! Someone's actually enforcing a law on the wealthy!"

Believe it or not, we're just getting started.

There could still be an NBA after that, and likely the league itself WILL survive in some respect. However, they will have real trouble putting people in the stands, allaying skepticism, and getting TV ratings. You think the NHL has it bad right now on Versus? You'll be lucky if you can see the NBA on any channel that isn't owned by the owner of an NBA team. (MyTV is owned by Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks. BET is owned by Charlotte Bobcats owner Robert Johnson.)

The attendance and ratings woes will mean that a lot less money comes into the league. The best players in the world will seek out leagues in Spain, Italy, Russia, Canada and maybe even China to make their millions, while the teams in the smallest markets (Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, et cetera) will hemorrhage money until they fold. The league will shrink, and some teams will move into Europe.

Another unintended consequence: the WNBA will be at a crossroads. Remember--same people, just with female players. Nobody's going to accuse that league of rigging games because, frankly, why on Earth would someone go to the trouble? However, with many teams sharing owners with NBA franchises, there could be a mass fire sale of WNBA franchises. Suppose nobody buys those teams--they'll go kaput. What I'm trying to say is, if the NBA goes into the extreme trouble I'm describing it could kill the WNBA. At the same time, there's that .00000000001% chance that the league will see a large increase in interest once the male competition is destroyed.

The NBA already has a few rogue owners and ex-owners that would likely begin a competing basketball league in the wake of scandals. I can imagine Mark Cuban founding a league all his own very quickly, a la the old USFL. This league could either topple the NBA or entirely kill off interest in American professional basketball.

By the way, all the meanwhile the NCAA makes billions off the fall of the great league, as it stands to drive a lot of basketball fans to the college game. Kids stop playing the game in record numbers, and a bunch of speedy, lanky young athletes learn baseball, football or hockey. Attendance for Major League Baseball sees a bump. The NHL has another chance to win over American fans. The Harlem Globetrotters find a new niche in America, and may wind up with a former NBA superstar or two.

Depending on how deep the scandal goes, some other people can be hurt by it:
-Nike (Not only would they sell fewer shoes, some of their chief endorsements might be sullied in the scandal.)
-Any company owned by an NBA owner. (Scrutiny will almost certainly spill over to the owners after a while.)
-Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley, and many others could end up having their entire careers called into question to some degree.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by ampersand » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:30 am

Getting back to this series...
  • Celtics aren't playing like themselves at all. Posey (!) is the only at the half who has scored 10 points or more. (Or just ten points at this point.)
  • I'd shut down Rondo for the second half and let him rest until Sunday.
  • Surprisingly, Bryant isn't doing much except making six assists to lead the team while others like Lamar Odom is perfect from the field, for fifteen points.
  • I'm beginning to think the really big game isn't going to be this game, but Game 5. Someone has to be leading 3-2.

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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by ampersand » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:03 am

*Ampersand watches the second half.
Wow. Amazing. I can't believe... Why isn't Bryant exerting his will...? Did the Lakers learn nothing from their near Game 2 comeback?
*Ampersand looks online for some crow-pie recipes.
The only other game that had a bigger comeback in the postseason? 2002, Game 5 between the Lakers and Kings. Yes, that now infamous Game 5.
Cid, congratulations, I think it's now a matter of when will Boston win the series.

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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by The Cid » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:24 am

Well that was a heaping slice of awesome. Ray Allen has been the man in this series.

I'm just going to come out and say it: Doc Rivers has done a fantastic job coaching the Celtics this series. Right now he's out-coaching a dude with nine rings.
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Re: The NBA Playoffs

Post by Deacon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:32 am

You're still on an endorphin high, so we'll let that slide.
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