Floran Rights

[Arres]

Stewardship and Dominion are VERY different. It's the difference between sovereign authority and administrative management. From the Christian viewpoint it is the difference between Man and God.

As for the actual topic, even without the Bible the article itself mentions at LEAST one other way of defining life value. Sentience, that spark of self-awareness that differentiates Man from Beast. This might mean that we would have to give Dolphins, Elephants, and a few others a little respect, but not Cows. I can't believe anyone who has ever looked a cow in the face has thought "She looks so SMART!" There is an animal destined to be dinner.

Plants on the other hand, not only don't have eyes to look into, they don't have nervous systems with which to suffer. Nor a sense of self to abuse. In short, they have no dignity to maintain. The swiss should stick to making watches and Bikini Volley Ball teams.

[ampersand]

...and chocolates and cheeses, too. Besides, PETA is too distracted by the public death of Eight Bells (2nd place horse at Kentucky Derby) to notice their victory in Switzerland at the moment.

[Deviously Deviant]

Sentience, that spark of self-awareness that differentiates Man from Beast.

Sorry to be a philosophy dick but you could have stopped with self awareness. Sentience is simply being aware of a sense impression (which most animals have) while self-awareness is a sense of personality and/or individuality.

[adciv]

Plants on the other hand, not only don't have eyes to look into, they don't have nervous systems with which to suffer.

This is debatable, given some of the plant biology classes I've had. They do react to "stress" in the environment and some react to physical interaction. (venus fly trap, anyone?)

[Deacon]

Plants do not have nervous systems like animals. Yes, when you cut a tree, you may see some sap leak out. That doesn't mean it's crying in anguish.

[Arc Orion]

Scarily enough, yes they are. When you view mankind as a whole as a bunch of blithering idiots, anyway. And that is how I view most of mankind.

You're just as much a blithering idiot as the vast majority of people out there. Get the fuck off your high horse and stop assuming that you're somehow special. You, myself, that guy down the street, we're all fully capable of understanding a subject when given the time and materials necessary to learn about it. You are not any more special than anybody else, and making assumptions about the vast population based upon the notion that "they're just dumb" is not a valid premise upon which to start making overarching statements regarding the mental fitness of any large group of individuals, let alone the whole of humanity. In fact, I'd go so far as to claim that if you are so entirely lacking in understanding on people, you must be either a complete social retard (and thus, incapable of properly understanding other humans), or you are simply too much of an idiot to understand how defining the vast majority of humanity based upon a very limited amount of biased and often unsubstantiated data is foolish.

[adciv]

Plants do not have nervous systems like animals. Yes, when you cut a tree, you may see some sap leak out. That doesn't mean it's crying in anguish.

Never said anguish. However, they do have a reaction of sorts that does go beyond sap leakage. I don't think this is quite equivalent to pain or on quite the same level as an animal, but they do have a reaction throughout the plant when exposed to environmental changes or when damaged.

[Deacon]

So every time you pull a weed or mow your lawn or prune your trees (which is healthy for them), you're actually causing pain and are thus a sadistic bastard doing immoral deeds?

[adciv]

Deacon, please don't read what I said and type something else. All I am saying is that the plants do exhibit a reaction to being cut or damaged. The reaction is tangible and goes beyond just sap leakage. As I said, I am not saying it is on the same level as an animal, just that there is a reaction, which means there has to be some sort of system. It may be very primitive, but it does exist. In no way am I advocating for plant rights, I consider the whole idea bullshit.

[Hirschof]

I don't care for how most of you make fun of this. Plants have been victims long enough and these new rights are well over due. However they are only going to amplify the anti-plant feelings that have plagued Europe for centuries. Somewhere in Switzerland there is a gang of hoodlums lynching some zinnias in response. Shame on you.

[collegestudent22]

Stewardship and Dominion are VERY different. It's the difference between sovereign authority and administrative management. From the Christian viewpoint it is the difference between Man and God.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said. Does not administrative management require some authority? Granted, it also means that if you screw up you are responsible for that, but you still have a modicum of authority.

[bagheadinc]

Deacon, please don't read what I said and type something else. All I am saying is that the plants do exhibit a reaction to being cut or damaged. The reaction is tangible and goes beyond just sap leakage. As I said, I am not saying it is on the same level as an animal, just that there is a reaction, which means there has to be some sort of system. It may be very primitive, but it does exist. In no way am I advocating for plant rights, I consider the whole idea bullshit.

How is that indicative of some sort of nervous system? Just because something reacts doesn't mean it feels. If you put baking soda and vinegar together they will react; does that mean that baking soda and/or vinegar have some sort of nervous system?

[kaiju01]

I think you're backing him into a ridiculous corner there, baghead. He's clearly talking about an organism reacting to stimuli, not physical or chemical reactions. He also wasn't stating, it reacts -> it feels, as he clarified in that quoted text.

The real problem is from a miscommunication where Adciv was disagreeing with the "[plants] don't have nervous systems" rather than the narrowed statement that "they don't have nervous systems with which to suffer." This could've been clarified much earlier.

[bagheadinc]

I think you're backing him into a ridiculous corner there, baghead. He's clearly talking about an organism reacting to stimuli, not physical or chemical reactions.

Aren't all of our reactions to stimuli a combination of physical, chemical, and electrical responses?

He also wasn't stating that because it reacts -> it feels, as he clarified in that quoted text.

Where did he clarify this? Are you talking about this statement...

As I said, I am not saying it is on the same level as an animal, just that there is a reaction, which means there has to be some sort of system. It may be very primitive, but it does exist.

I read that as because it reacts -> it feels (on a very primitive level).

[ampersand]

I don't care for how most of you make fun of this. Plants have been victims long enough and these new rights are well over due. However they are only going to amplify the anti-plant feelings that have plagued Europe for centuries. Somewhere in Switzerland there is a gang of hoodlums lynching some zinnias in response. Shame on you. :glare:

Considering that most plants have a lifespan about half a year or so, killing them is sort of a kind of mercy killing. That's right, I'm pulling out the Kevorian logic, or illogic, if you prefer.