California Supreme Court overturns gay marriage ban

[Deacon]

This is true for getting people to understand, but most of what you cite -- while still a common idea in many places -- is heavily based on misconceptions.

Yes, exactly the problem.

I would change one portion of your words, where you said "the only gays you ever heard about or dealt with," it may be more accurate to say "the only gays you ever heard about or knowingly dealt with" instead.

I kinda figured that went without saying...

[Martin Blank]

Most western governments have not been for well over 1000 years. I was figuring, since I was talking about US law, it would be obvious I wasn't going back nearly that far.

A thousand years?

You do know that the British regent is the head of the Church of England, right? The rules of France and Spain yielded much of their power to the Catholic church for centuries, turning them into de facto theocracies. Many pre-Italian states were theocracies in practice if not in name. Russia did a great many things in the name of the Eastern Orthodox church prior to the Bolshevik Revolution.

[collegestudent22]

You do know that the British regent is the head of the Church of England, right?

A church that was created by said regent.... in order to remove the power of the original theocracy. While you are correct that there were theocratic elements in some of the Western nations during the timeframe I was referring to, my point was really that, pretty much whenever one of those monarchs disagreed with the Church, the Church's power was diminished in order for the monarchs to get their way. Sure, the Church still had some power, but that was really only because the monarchs of those respective nations just didn't want to bother with removing that power because they either didn't care or they agreed with the Church on those specific issues....

Basically, my point is that a monarch that creates laws that agree with the Church is not the same as the Church making those laws.

[StruckingFuggle]

That depends on the extent of the laws; it could be that it's only different in name ... which isn't very different at all.

Man, there's such a good idea in the idea that the government should not make laws based on nothing but religions and the comfort of their believers ... but sadly they said "shall not establish religion", not "shall not base law on religion". So close... so very, very close.

[adciv]

Yes.

The first trial:

Alcippe, the daughter of Ares by the nymph Aglauros, was raped by Halirrhothius, son of Poseidon. Ares avenged his girl by killing her attacker, but was then indicted by Poseidon before the tribunal of the other Olympian gods and tried on the hill in front of the Acropolis in Athens. Ares was acquitted, however, and in honor of the tribunal the hill was named Areopagus, which was thereafter the site of criminal trials.

source

As to Governments being theocracies or not, we could look at South East asia, which has been fairly secular from what I've seen. Yeah, Emperor==God, but besides that. It does get into a chicken/egg scenario, when you essentially have everyone in one country who all believe the same thing.

[Arc Orion]

As to Governments being theocracies or not, we could look at South East asia, which has been fairly secular from what I've seen. Yeah, Emperor==God, but besides that.

They don't have religion, well except that religious belief....

[Terrene]

I cannot argue against that logic.

[adciv]

Hey, from what I've read, it's pretty minor in the whole scheme of things. No worshiping, nothing you'd expect to see in any theocracy in history.

[collegestudent22]

Hey, from what I've read, it's pretty minor in the whole scheme of things. No worshiping, nothing you'd expect to see in any theocracy in history.

Except for the whole reason that Truman chose to nuke Japan, instead of invade it, was because the Japanese would fight to the death (every man, woman and child) in order to defend their land and their Emperor.

[Deacon]

And that was specifically because the emperor was really their god?

[collegestudent22]

Not entirely, but that was definitely a big part of it. It was also the reason that the Japanese were willing to go on suicide missions. Their emperor was asking them to. You don't refuse your god.

[bagheadinc]

Wasn't this thread about gay marriage?

[collegestudent22]

Gays and Marriage? NO WAI! I don't remember that.