California Supreme Court overturns gay marriage ban

[The Cid]

That's just one state. Illinois.

Just one. Not fifty. Stop overreacting and pretending like the world is set against your religion. I know it's tough for someone who wears their religion prominently to go about that in a secular world, but the way you've chosen to go about it just makes you look nearly militant. Please don't go around starting fights about religion because you feel slighted. It doesn't help anybody.

[Hirschof]

The problem in that story is not the quiet prayer itself but how the lawmakers went about creating the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.

They should allow the option for students, who want/need silent prayer/reflection time, to do so at their convenience. Like going to a large room with other students for a couple minutes before the school day starts. Many students didn't care or want that silent time period.

But again this is an individual incident which is going through legal battles at the moment. I'm looking around and I don't see a wide-spread occurrence of this.

[StruckingFuggle]

That's just one state. Illinois.

Plus, there was no banning of any prayer or silence. People are still more than allowed to do it if they wish!

What the court said was that the GOVERNMENT cannot MANDATE it.

There's a HUGE difference, there.


Edit: ninja'd by Hirschof who used more words to say the same thing.... I'm gonna post the blunt anyway, and post also that it's kind of funny to me - "well in this one case yes I'm for the government being able to tell people what they have to do!" :p

[collegestudent22]

What the court said was that the GOVERNMENT cannot MANDATE it.

But they can mandate silent time for 9/11 and other such days of remembrance. Why can't they then have silent time (not necessarily for prayer) every day, then?

[Dr. Tower]

So basically, it still isn't illegal for a school to have a quiet time, but rather, a judge is considering whether it is Constitutional for a state government to mandate a quiet time. These are two rather different and distinct things, as most people seem to be able to grasp.

Also, in terms of the silent time for 9/11, was that a law mandating it or was it a suggestion?

[Hirschof]

But they can mandate silent time for 9/11 and other such days of remembrance. Why can't they then have silent time (not necessarily for prayer) every day, then?

You idiot...

9/11 was a national tragedy where thousands of lives were lost. Plus.... it wasn't fucking mandated! There was no required silent time the next day or one the one-year anniversary for quite a few schools. The only thing I remember was the Christian prayer group getting together in the courtyard the next day.

Prayer is a religious, and private, matter which should be on the person's own time. Now that being said, personal prayer should be allowed in school but not mandated to where in interferes with people of different or non-religious beliefs.

[StruckingFuggle]

But they can mandate silent time for 9/11 and other such days of remembrance.

This is possibly somewhat disingenuous. The Supreme Court doesn't just rule on whatever laws they feel like. They can only do the judge-y thing and pass a verdict on a legal case.

With that in mind, has the court upheld that such silent time is constitutional? Or has there just never been a lawsuit against a school or local government mandating such to challenge it and bring it before the court?

[spikegirl7]

I graduated High School in 2005, and at that time a moment of silence was had every day after the announcements and before the start of lessons.

I'm an atheist. I was an atheist in high school. I did not pray during the moment of silence, I never prayed during any sporting events. Yet I didn't begrudge those who chose to.

But of course this was Tennessee, things are a bit different there than they are in Illinois.

[Deacon]

Many students didn't care or want that silent time period.

Many students don't want to do homework, either, or wear shoes or refrain from smoking. I'm not sure a moment of silence is too much to ask.

[Hirschof]

I'm not sure a moment of silence is too much to ask.

You wouldn't think so but people get bugs up their ass about anything. It wouldn't of mattered to me in high school. Would have slept through it just like the rest of the day.

[Martin Blank]

But they can mandate silent time for 9/11 and other such days of remembrance. Why can't they then have silent time (not necessarily for prayer) every day, then?

There's a difference between a secular moment of respect and a veiled attempt to set aside dedicated time for students to pray. That some of them will not actually pray does not necessarily negate the intentions behind it.

[Smilie Myth]

I honestly don't care either way. I used to be completely for gay marriage but then when no one was willing to settle for a temporary compromise I gave up. Honestly I don't think the government should have anything to do with marriage since it is a religious ritual (whatever religion that may be). As for the benefits one gets from being married because of the government I really can understand both sides of the argument. Married people get a tax break because they will more than likely bring MORE taxpayers into the world. But if a gay couple has been together for more than twenty years, one shouldn't get the shaft because the other one dies.

As for the praying discussion currently going on (I'm going to ignore my belief that all public schools as they are should be eliminated)... really? Does it -really- matter? A moment of silence where a kid has to sit still and shut up for a minute a day. I use that as a tactic when I babysit to get the kids to calm down - it allows them get into their head and think of whatever they want. It's not even a religious manuever - though it may be inspired by one - but is it really worth all the tantrum that people throw about it?

REALLY?!

[Martin Blank]

Honestly I don't think the government should have anything to do with marriage since it is a religious ritual (whatever religion that may be).

Yes, they do, for at least one purpose: inheritance. Marriage is a legally binding contract that assists in determining who gets what is left behind in the case that no will is found or the will is found to be unenforceable. Without that, there is no way of settling this out.

The courts have also found that it is a core interest of the government to promote the development of families, if for no other purpose than to have generally stable individuals to grow into generally stable adults to partake in society. Marriage assists this by encouraging the development of generally stable family environments.

[collegestudent22]

Martin, a legal document for "civil unions" would work just as well for that purpose. The problem arises when gay "civil liberties" groups demand that it be an actual marriage...

[Hirschof]

Where is the problem that arises? And who is to define marriage? God? Last time I checked Church and Government were supposed to be separate.

Marriage should be a special union between two adults regardless of sexual orientation. Just because you see it wrong on a personal belief doesn't mean it should be illegal across the country.