Obama vs. McCain: Thoughts?

[The Cid]

Anyway, if I have to hear one more comparison between Obama, John F. Kennedy, and Camelot one more time, there may not be a television left in house (if my ultra-conservative parents don't beat me to it first).

That's just the cliche routine. Every Democrat that becomes president will be compared to JFK constantly, and every Republican will be compared to Reagan. It's like how every talented young scorer in the NBA is compared to Michael Jordan and every successful quarterback in the NFL is weighed against Joe Montana.

[Thorsman]

Communist Party: Same platform as the current Democratic ticket.

*shakes head* How little you understand about political ideologies...

[adciv]

Rant: Great. Just Great. The markets had finally stabilized somewhat and then Obama wins and now the taxes he wants to enact are causing the markets to drop again. We'll probably end the year with the Dow below 8000.

see?

The dude is still 70 days off before he can start ANYTHING. Nobody knows if his promises were empty shells and if he is the next bitch of major corporations. Yet, the little tumble is already his fault. That the Dow went up in the last week, now that was of course due to the miraculous recovery of the housing market. No wait, that didn´t happen. Bombing of targets in Syria and Iran? Was that the reason? Or maybe fluctuation, who knows.

Markets price tax changes in before they become law. In 2009, even if they sold stock on Jan 1, 2009, they would be subject to the 2009 capital gains tax rate (the one Obama wants to increase). As an investor, why would I then wait until 2009 to sell and be subject to the higher rate when I can get out now and (hopefully) not be subject ot it? He doesn't need to have made any changes in law yet. The mere fact that it is going to happen in the future affects the markets today. If he comes out and says he will not raise taxes or will lower them (and if people believed him) the markets would JUMP.

The market is current holding steady at about 8900 for the day. We'll see what happens to it over the next few months.

[StruckingFuggle]

Markets price tax changes in before they become law. In 2009, even if they sold stock on Jan 1, 2009, they would be subject to the 2009 capital gains tax rate (the one Obama wants to increase). As an investor, why would I then wait until 2009 to sell and be subject to the higher rate when I can get out now and (hopefully) not be subject ot it? He doesn't need to have made any changes in law yet. The mere fact that it is going to happen in the future affects the markets today. If he comes out and says he will not raise taxes or will lower them (and if people believed him) the markets would JUMP.

That seems a bit easy to manipulate, if only once or twice...

[adciv]

Key thing:

(and if people believed him)

The screwy thing with the US tax code, as I understand it, is that it is possible for Congress to change the 2008 Tax Law even after April 15, 2009. And they certainly can change it in 2009 before April 15.

[Deacon]

I honestly don't understand people like Fuggle.

Fuggle's actually pretty easy to understand. He simply doesn't agree with you, and you carry on pissing and moaning at him for not agreeing with you. Learn to have a little tolerance of others' views and stop being such a dick.

You are a giant, throbbing cock with a superiority complex. Perhaps it comes from having relocated to Europe and thus feel superior to your unwashed American cousins. You've claimed otherwise in the past, but your words haven't backed that up. Perhaps it's so easy to understand him because both of you seem so disconnected from the world.

Regardless, I wasn't saying that I couldn't understand the words he was typing but rather that I couldn't understand how you could possibly arrive at some of the conclusions to which he adheres dogmatically.

[Seir]

You're talking to the guy who once defended someone's right to a delusion that he can throw fireballs.

[Thorsman]

I honestly don't understand people like Fuggle.

Fuggle's actually pretty easy to understand. He simply doesn't agree with you, and you carry on pissing and moaning at him for not agreeing with you. Learn to have a little tolerance of others' views and stop being such a dick.

You are a giant, throbbing cock with a superiority complex. Perhaps it comes from having relocated to Europe and thus feel superior to your unwashed American cousins. You've claimed otherwise in the past, but your words haven't backed that up. Perhaps it's so easy to understand him because both of you seem so disconnected from the world.

Regardless, I wasn't saying that I couldn't understand the words he was typing but rather that I couldn't understand how you could possibly arrive at some of the conclusions to which he adheres dogmatically.

I knew what you meant, Deacon. This is exactly the pissing and moaning I was talking about. I may not agree with all of Fuggle's conclusions but they're not that difficult to understand at their heart. Perhaps if you weren't so narrow-minded you could at least understand them yourself. The way you have a go at Fuggle you sound like you don't even want to understand where he's coming from.

Oh and Seir, I'm not the least bit ashamed that I defended someone's right to a delusion that he could throw fireballs. We all have our delusions, it's just that your delusion of "eating the body of Christ" and "drinking the blood of Christ" is more socially acceptable. Others will recognize your right to your delusions if you recognize their right to theirs, regardless of what you think of said delusions. Heck, I know people who feel they're reincarnations of famous people. I may think they're deluded, but at least I recognize their right to have their delusion.

Seir, TL;DR Stop bringing up the same old incidents from two years ago. I've moved past them, it's time you did as well.

[adciv]

I knew what you meant, Deacon. This is exactly the pissing and moaning I was talking about. I may not agree with all of Fuggle's conclusions but they're not that difficult to understand at their heart. Perhaps if you weren't so narrow-minded you could at least understand them yourself. The way you have a go at Fuggle you sound like you don't even want to understand where he's coming from.

How does one understand without learning the reasoning behind it?

[Thorsman]

I knew what you meant, Deacon. This is exactly the pissing and moaning I was talking about. I may not agree with all of Fuggle's conclusions but they're not that difficult to understand at their heart. Perhaps if you weren't so narrow-minded you could at least understand them yourself. The way you have a go at Fuggle you sound like you don't even want to understand where he's coming from.

How does one understand without learning the reasoning behind it?

Good point. The reasoning behind Fuggle's assertions is clearer than a lot of people give him credit for. Although I don't always agree with his reasoning, I'm quite happy to respect his point of view.

[adciv]

But if you don't agree with his reasoning, then you don't understand the viewpoint. This is where trying to understand the apparent weaknesses or contradictions or flaws in the reasoning comes in. Unless you can understand the reasoning, you can not understand the viewpoint. You may know what the viewpoint is, but you still don't know the reasoning behind it.

[ampersand]

You're talking to the guy who once defended someone's right to a delusion that he can throw fireballs.

That would have made an awesome episode of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law.

Harvey: My client, in his artistic expression of using his fist as the paintbrush on the canvas of another fighter, will sometimes be so relentless in his artwork that he will sometimes he'll throw actual fireballs. And who wouldn't want that ability to throw a Hadouken?

Now back to your regularly scheduled sniveling...

[Accer]

But if you don't agree with his reasoning, then you don't understand the viewpoint.

This statement seems very false.

[adciv]

You may know what the viewpoint is, but you won't understand it, why and how they came to it, without the reasoning behind it. Think of it like a mathematical proof. You may be able to use the begining and the end to prove something else. However, without understading the reasoning going into each logical step that proves it, you don't understand it. Then again, I come at everything from an engineering point of view, so maybe it is just me.

[Deacon]

Because the sky is a deep shade of orange I choose to think that squirrels prefer their porkchops rare.

Do you understand my viewpoint?