Russia and Georgia fighting over South Ossetia

[adciv]

BP evacuated almost all of their personnel, and they're not going to send them out to the field when missiles and shells are falling. This is only what's been reported, but it's been reported in several news organizations, and they're saying that where the impacts have been, there's nothing else of tactical or strategic value nearby.

I repeat it, they draw conclusion too quickly. I found this :http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080809/wl ... nrestoilbp

The pipeline was shut down two days before Georgian attack because BP had sabotage problem in Turkey. Kurds separatists destroyed a small part of it. Why bombing an inactive and already damaged pipeline?

That is one of the pipelines, there are two others. Those two were shut down in case they were damaged by the fighting to limit the problems.source

[Jezebel]

For those wondering why Georgia was lacking information on Google Maps, here is the reason why.

[ampersand]

And I was so hoping they would blame it on Carmen Sandiego.

[Hirschof]

Mikheil Saakashvili looks like a Baldwin.

[collegestudent22]

And I was so hoping they would blame it on Carmen Sandiego.

That wouldn't make sense. Carmen Sandiego hides somewhere. Deleting all maps of that place would make it kind of obvious where she was hiding.

[ampersand]

Wow, way to get my joke, C22.

[Calus]

According to Transparency International(the global coalition against corruption) Georgia is 79th and Russia is 143....

Have a feeling that's going to cause some trouble with people posting here.

[Hirschof]

"Poland and the United States have signed a preliminary deal to place part of a U.S. ballistic missile defense system in Poland, a plan that has drawn sharp objections from Russia."

...yay...

[Deacon]

I swear it smells like Hitler's maneuvering pre-WWII.

"Hey there. We're invading."
"WTF? Why??"
"Well there are some ethnic Germans there, they want independence, and we owe that to them."
*Glances at Poland...


Compare that to...

"Hey there. We're invading."
"WTF? Why??"
"Well there are some ethnic Russians there, they want independence, and we owe that to them."
*Glances at Poland...

[adciv]

In exchange to that, I think Russia should get to place a missile defense system in Cuba.

1) We've said we're willing to share the technology.
2) So long as it is a missile defense and not nuclear missiles this time.

Oh, by the way, any missile defense system in Cuba wouldn't be able to protect Russia. It's in the wrong location for interdicting ballistic missiles.

[Martin Blank]

I'd like to know who is in charge in Russia, and how much credibility they think they have left. Let's go over the time-line here.

08 August: Georgia strikes South Ossetia. Russia responds by invading, ostensibly to push Georgian forces out of South Ossetia, essentially routing Georgian forces completely. Russia says it has no plans to do anything more.

09 August: Russia invades Abkhazia, ostensibly to prevent Georgian forces -- who are angry but have little remaining military strength -- from attacking the region in retaliation for the Russian counterattack. Russia says that it has no plans to do anything more.

10 August: Russia extends attacks deeper into Georgia. Last Georgian forces leave South Ossetian capital of Tshkinvali. Russia argues that Georgian forces are continuing to press attacks on South Ossetia. Georgia claims that Russia has intentions to enter Georgia proper. Russia refutes this claim.

11 August: Russia enters Georgia proper, taking the city of Senaki and threatening to annihilate the remaining Georgian forces there if they do not disarm. Russia says that the fighting will cease soon, and that the offensive has stopped.

12 August: Georgia claims that Russia has taken Gori. Russia refutes this claim.

13 August: Independent journalists broadcast video footage of Russian forces clearly inside Gori. Russia admits that it is there, but says that it will withdraw soon.

14 August: Russia claims that it is preparing to withdraw. Georgia and the US say that there is little evidence of this, but that they hold out hope.

15 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. Russian forces sighted on the road moving toward Tbilisi, and at least one checkpoint has been set up.

16 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. Russian forces sighted on the road moving toward Poti, a port city that is in the opposite direction of Russia.

17 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. Journalists on the line between Russian and Georgian forces at the edge of Gori report mixed times of tension and relaxation amongst troops of the two sides, but Russia is clearly refusing to let the Georgians in.

18 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. Journalists in Gori transmit video footage of Russian forces destroying Georgian police vehicles and equipment by demolishing them with tanks. Troops, police, and perhaps some civilians taken prisoner by Russian forces in Poti.

19 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. US says that it looks like it may be so. Journalists in Gori say that there's no evidence that they can see of any withdrawal.

Anyone want to take bets on what 20 August looks like?

[adciv]

08 August: Georgia strikes South Ossetia.

Do you know if anyone has more info on this part? Where, what kind, targets and so on?

[adciv]

Russia reduces death toll by an order of magnitude.

[Martin Blank]

I have a deep problem with the way that accusations of genocide are thrown around. The Holocaust was an attempt at genocide. The siege of Sarajevo was an attempt at genocide. Indiscriminate shelling is not in itself genocide. At most, it is ethnic cleansing if it is done with the intent to get a people of given characteristics to move out of the area.

[Makh]

I'd like to know who is in charge in Russia, and how much credibility they think they have left. Let's go over the time-line here.

My problem is not what USA think of Russia, it is what USA think of Georgia in that event. Georgia attacked Ossetia, destroyed a good part of Tskhinvali, violating the agreement of ceasefire of 1992. Where do you mention those things? It is not Russia who started hostilies the day of olympics. I wish Western media would interview more Ossetians.

We can see little sign of impartiality in the way you are presenting those events. I am not saying you are lying, but it is clear that your opinion is too much favorable to one side.

14 August: Russia claims that it is preparing to withdraw. Georgia and the US say that there is little evidence of this, but that they hold out hope.

In 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, USA said they would withdraw their troops by June 2003, and yet, they are still there. Withdrawing an army is not something you do in few days after the end of conflict, it takes time and you know it. Many factors can delay it and you can not do it all the army at time.

I myself am not certain why troops are taking so long. But somehow, I have an inclination to think they want to stay longer to make sure that troubles will not start right after they leave. You have to see this from our perspective. Georgia attacks Ossetia, and the outcome of all this is that USA want to kick Russia out of G8 and include Georgia in NATO. This would be consistent with the American expension of NATO in the Russian sphere (Poland, Czech Respublik, Bulgaria, Romania, Baltic States, and so forth. How do you expect Russians will react? Perhaps the troops are not in hurry to leave because they do not know what will be the intentions of NATO after that, leaving Ossetia alone in a country they do not wish to join.

17 August: Russia claims that it is withdrawing. Journalists on the line between Russian and Georgian forces at the edge of Gori report mixed times of tension and relaxation amongst troops of the two sides, but Russia is clearly refusing to let the Georgians in.

Georgian police has retaken control of Gori yesterday. Most of the army left Gori, Senaki and Igoyeti.

Speaking of credibility, this man should think twice before he say things like that. http://youtube.com/watch?v=3h_ZbW2REcI
Russian media may not be impartial, most people know it here. I am surprised however to see that USA media is in 20th position on that web site of transparency. The same media who claimed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, regardless of severals UN reports on this and IAEA inspections. They still can not believe their media manipulated the public opinion. Those things do not only happens to Russians. Do not get me wrong, I know US media have more transparency than Russian one. What I see is that people in USA are so quick to take the side of Georgians, I wish they could see the situation from the other side, and not with CNN (they are using footage of Tskhinvali ruins when they speak of "Russian devastation"in Georgia.) Not really fair if you ask me.