Piracy and Somalia

[Deacon]

I saw recently on a news site that it is actually against international law for merchantmen to arm themselves, and this includes keeping military forces aboard except during emergencies (like having been hijacked). I suspect that this was done in an attempt to reduce piracy, but it may well have led to an increase in recent years as pirates know that they can get away with it.

Yes, that's true. Sort of like removing the Second Amendment on the high seas: leave only the criminals with weapons. My understanding is that most of the companies running these ships have their own policies against carrying any firearms on board for insurance and liability purposes, regardless.s

[adciv]

I found it amusing that a frigate from the Indian Navy ordered a suspected pirate mothership to halt and prepare for inspection, and the mothership opened fire on the frigate while trying to escape. I would love to know what was going through the minds of the pirates to think this was even a remotely good idea. We may never know, since the boat was turned into a small debris field.

There was also the previous case of the pirates opening fire on a British ship. To quote Drudge, "Pirates open fire on warship... die". Seriously, we need to go back to the methods used to eliminate the Barbary pirates.

[naval_aviator_2040]

what the US Government can legally do is to send out one or more of the merchant ships under contract with the US government with a skeleton crew and a team of either Navy SEALs or the newly formed Coast Guard Marine Safety and Security Teams, transmit a false distress signal or other ruse to attract the pirates, and ambush them upon boarding.

I have heard stories from friends of mine in the navy that tell me this kind of thing does happen with a high success rate but for obvious reasons only works as a small part of a more comprehensive strategy.

[adciv]

Your forgot the USMC. I doubt any Coast Guard units would be moved beyond our own shores.

Interesting. Given some of the earlier responses, I didn't think that would be 'legal'. It might cause some problems in that the pirates may just start shooting everyone they try to board. I'd still prefer we bombard the pirate town from the sea, though. I figure it would make good gunnery practice.

[naval_aviator_2040]

Ruse de Guerre is perfectly legal in international waters under both the Geneva Convention and International Maritime Organization regulations

[adciv]

Sending out the distress signal in this manner might be 'perfidy'. Mind you, since they pirates are attacking the vessel for sending it out, I'm not sure it would count.

[naval_aviator_2040]

I saw recently on a news site that it is actually against international law for merchantmen to arm themselves,...

british ships carrying nuclear materials have been armed since 1999. not sure if this is in violation of international law or if it fits into the "emergency" clause you mentioned.

[FireAza]

Where can you see pirates? Only in Somalia!

[Calus]

I saw recently on a news site that it is actually against international law for merchantmen to arm themselves,...

british ships carrying nuclear materials have been armed since 1999. not sure if this is in violation of international law or if it fits into the "emergency" clause you mentioned.

I'm going to just guess, but I think the world would prefer it stay that way.

[ampersand]

Where can you see pirates? Only in Somalia! :mrgreen:

Holy Crap. Pie Ass! Tours.

[Seraphim]

Deacon is right. Piracy in Somalia is national sport for more then a decade. Let's say negociation is successful with that pirate group, the next day other groups will be tempted to pursue their activities. Their goal are not political, not humanitarian (they pillaged ship with medical help and food). Their motivation is pure pillage. Some town in coastal area of Somalia like Eyl became very prosperous only with piracy. Military cooperation may be the only option for now.

Perhaps you do not know things?

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=som ... rates+poor
http://freep.com/article/20081120/NEWS07/811200417
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0811 ... e_boomtown

or there's always wiki

While millions of Somalis receive food aid,[56][57] according to a study by the UNDP and the European Commission, it is estimated that as much as $1 billion USD is annually remitted to Somalia by Somalis in the diaspora via money transfer companies—far more than the amount of development funding flowing into the country.[58]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia#Politics

To say these are just barbarians randomly pillage as it pleases them, is either disingenious or ignorant. These are extremely poor people stealing for substinence. Piracy is now thought to be the largest factor in the Somali economy. If piracy were to stop millions would be subjected to starvation, as it was before the pirates. Entire cities are based around arming and supplying these pirates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7623329.stm

[Deacon]

To say these are just barbarians randomly pillage as it pleases them, is either disingenious or ignorant. These are extremely poor people stealing for substinence.

What the fuck kind of subsistence requires tens of millions of dollars?

Piracy is now thought to be the largest factor in the Somali economy. If piracy were to stop millions would be subjected to starvation, as it was before the pirates. Entire cities are based around arming and supplying these pirates.

These are all awful things! How are you using these to defend piracy? Holy shit! It's like, "The mafia relies on extortion and money laundering to support their families, so to speak out against them is wrong." People have built an empire on crime, and it's been allowed to continue to the point where people are relying on it, so it's alright? And the headlines to which you link that describe Somalis hailing pirates as heroes for their violent crimes speaks to the degree to which those people are fucked up.

[Seraphim]

What the fuck kind of subsistence requires tens of millions of dollars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... l_spending
$586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
$394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
$294.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
$276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _n27258639
ISU study sees U.S. food expenses rising as much as $20 billion annually

As you may see, surviving is sometimes kind of expensive.

These are all awful things! How are you using these to defend piracy? Holy shit! It's like, "The mafia relies on extortion and money laundering to support their families, so to speak out against them is wrong." People have built an empire on crime, and it's been allowed to continue to the point where people are relying on it, so it's alright?

that's a bad equivocation. It would be more like if some rich people started dumping toxic waste in your fishing waters, and you starving, then went and stole enough food to survive and steal more food. Whoops that's what's actually happening. Okay. It's more like, someone going to the store and stealing a few apples that the store owners don't notice being gone, just to survive.

Anyway, I didn't make moral judgements. I just wanted to make sure we weren't misrepresnting the issue. If you think it's wrong to steal to feed yourself, cool. Your loss. But let's make sure we all know that's what's going on, and that these aren't just random thugs.

[Deacon]

Why have you come back? To compare wasteful US government programs to survival and to justify Somali piracy by saying that because people have turned to crime for their income, their income by crime should be guaranteed?

[Seraphim]

Why have you come back? To compare wasteful US government programs to survival and to justify Somali piracy by saying that because people have turned to crime for their income, their income by crime should be guaranteed?

Food, isn't a wasteful government program.

perhaps you should consider studying imperialism and violent globalization to get a better understanding of the sittuation.

I mean it's not like the Somalians shot first. There was kind of this century and a half of oppression and pillaging by the same countries crying bloody murder now that they're the ones being robbed, as opposed to doing the robbing.