Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

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Deacon
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Deacon » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:45 am

Yeah, Lucksi's fallen for the forlorn image of the innocent immigrant just looking for a better life. Sure, there are some that way, but generally that image is held by people who don't actually have to deal with them. Illegals generally have little respect for the law, for other people's property and safety, and have a whacked-out idea of rationalized morality.
FirebirdNC wrote:Obviously this guy is getting a thrill from rounding people up but so what he could be doing a lot worse.
Obviously? Why, because the freaking illegals say that he had a dog with him?
Arres wrote:Is it possible that the judge is allowing it to go to trial, because he EXPECTS it to fail? Thereby setting precedent for MORE ranchers to protect their property?
No, he could bring forward a ruling that it had no merit because of X, Y, and Z, and that the illegals are responsible for paying for the man's legal fees. That would be a much stronger precedent. The one thing I hate is how easy it is to sue people with nothing to lose. It's extortion via civil courts.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by JermCool » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:45 am

Mav wrote:God forbid some people walk across your land. You better let your dog eat them.
I think I might have a biased view. I hate illegal immigration with a passion. Why the fuck did the wife and I have to fight with the government for nearly two years to get her residency legally when fuckwits like these to the wrong fucking thing and think they're entitled to $32M?

Damn straight I'd let the dog eat them.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Mav » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:48 am

adciv wrote:
Mav wrote:God forbid some people walk across your land. You better let your dog eat them.
And destroy his property and kill his cattle and break and enter into his house aside from the trespassing.
The rancher, Roger Barnett, 64, began rounding up illegal immigrants in 1998 and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol after they destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his home, the newspaper reported.
...So, because some dicks from, like, six years ago, decided to go and be dicks and fuck up some guy's shit, this now means some completely different people six years later are to blame?

This is awesome! You see, I got punched in the eye once by this black kid when I was eight, and it's obviously way too late to track him down and get even now. But by your logic, I can just go sock the next darkie walking down the street, and I can have my amends. Thank you Adciv.

Or maybe, just maybe, you should deal with the people who fuck up other peoples' shit. Not the people who walk across... you know, some ground. And hey, I don't want to be too much of a hippy. I have my apartment. I don't really want people standing six feet outside my door for no reason. I have my territorial limits like everyone else. But I'm also not going to go fence off hundreds of square miles of land for myself, either.

You're probably still missing the point, but I thought I'd try.


Also, Jerm, this may be my disrespect for authority kicking in, but aren't you pointing out that the problem may be with the system, and not the people?


*Edit* Quick note here. I'm not siding with the people suing the rancher. I think that's retarded. I think the rancher is a little retarded for how far he took things, but unless he did something illegal in a fashion that law enforcement needs to deal with him, I find the civil suit to be completely retarded. However, the groups of people that go on about how evil the ACLU is, or how immigrants are stealing all of our jobs, well, they're equally retarded.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Jadefire » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:00 am

Hmmm. Would be nice if I could claim pain and suffering for the 20 months of being separated from my husband (though to be fair, it was Jerm. LOL). Or lost wages from the very well-paying job I couldn't accept because we didn't know how long we'd be in the country.

Alas, it wasn't to be.

Maybe I should've hopped the border and gotten held up at dog-point.

When I read this, I automatically thought La Raza, not the ACLU. I imagine the defense team is an offshoot.

And yes, Mav. I'm missing the point. I've been in the US six months, not six years. I haven't been able to get a job because of the 'immigrant' thing. People hear 'immigrant' and assume we're all living off welfare and getting rich off the back of hard-working Americans. They don't understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration and that's thanks to the liberals and the media lumping us all in to the same category without having any knowledge of the facts.

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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by JermCool » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:04 am

Mav wrote:Also, Jerm, this may be my disrespect for authority kicking in, but aren't you pointing out that the problem may be with the system, and not the people?
Oh, I know the system is fucked up. The huge reason the system is fucked up is due to some moronic idea that they need to deal with illegal immigration before fixing the legal system. Well...gosh! If it was easier to become legal maybe people wouldn't do it illegally. On the flip side, if people wouldn't come over illegally, they'd focus on fixing the damned system.

So I hate them all. The system. The illegals. HATE!
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by spikegirl7 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:45 pm

I support him stopping these people.

$10 says that some of them were smuggling drugs.
$20 says some of them had commited crimes while in the states previously.

The majority of illegal narcotics come across the border from Mexico. I remember hearing a piece done by a border partrol agent saying they cought TONS of the stuff coming across and still that was only a tiny portion of the drugs. That was only the drugs that were ON THE PERSON of the illegals he cought. That doesn't include the drugs confiscated from vehicles crossing the border, or the drugs that actually get through.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Mav » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:13 pm

spikegirl7 wrote:I support him stopping these people.

$10 says that some of them were smuggling drugs.
$20 says some of them had commited crimes while in the states previously.

The majority of illegal narcotics come across the border from Mexico. I remember hearing a piece done by a border partrol agent saying they cought TONS of the stuff coming across and still that was only a tiny portion of the drugs. That was only the drugs that were ON THE PERSON of the illegals he cought. That doesn't include the drugs confiscated from vehicles crossing the border, or the drugs that actually get through.
Oh, yeah. You're totally right. Because the drug lords realized their best way to smuggle drugs across the border was to have destitute mexicans load up their pockets with coke and walk through 200 miles of desert. The speed boats, planes and tunnels were ultimately decided to be too obvious and risky.


And Jadefire, if that's your stance, I might suggest rereading what I've been writing and responding to. As far as I can tell, I'm on your side. I have a friend who's family has been going through the process of gaining citizenship for years now, and has had to drop out of school because of it.

I'm also what I consider an economist, so not only do I support legal immigration (as most of my genetics came through Ellis Island), but I expect an explanation of how our meat packing plants are going to continue operating and how our fruit is going to get picked without sky rocketing prices at the grocery store before we successfully seal off our borders.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by adciv » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:44 pm

Mav wrote:Or maybe, just maybe, you should deal with the people who fuck up other peoples' shit. Not the people who walk across... you know, some ground. And hey, I don't want to be too much of a hippy. I have my apartment. I don't really want people standing six feet outside my door for no reason. I have my territorial limits like everyone else. But I'm also not going to go fence off hundreds of square miles of land for myself, either.
So, you shouldn't prosecute tresspassing or border jumpers? Or do you want him to wait until someone fucks up his property before going out to stop him? How about he does this to protect his property and keep it from being destroyed by the people tresspassing on his land.
...So, because some dicks from, like, six years ago, decided to go and be dicks and fuck up some guy's shit, this now means some completely different people six years later are to blame?

This is awesome! You see, I got punched in the eye once by this black kid when I was eight, and it's obviously way too late to track him down and get even now. But by your logic, I can just go sock the next darkie walking down the street, and I can have my amends. Thank you Adciv.
And here you're being a fucking prick trying to put words in my mouth. He is not assaulting them, punching them or in any way harming these people. He is stopping them during the commission of a fucking crime and making sure his property is not damaged again. Nor is he blaming them for the damage that was done six years ago.
You're probably still missing the point, but I thought I'd try.
You're the one saying that the law should not be enforced.
Quick note here. I'm not siding with the people suing the rancher. I think that's retarded. I think the rancher is a little retarded for how far he took things, but unless he did something illegal in a fashion that law enforcement needs to deal with him, I find the civil suit to be completely retarded.
Then shut the fuck up about him not being able to stop people in the act of comitting a crime on his own damned property!
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Mav » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:55 pm

Alright, I'll break this down for you, and suffer through the infinite quote tags and explanations that I'm going to have to give for this to make sense.

I said this:
God forbid some people walk across your land. You better let your dog eat them.
You then said this:
And destroy his property and kill his cattle and break and enter into his house aside from the trespassing.
I then said this:
...So, because some dicks from, like, six years ago, decided to go and be dicks and fuck up some guy's shit, this now means some completely different people six years later are to blame?

This is awesome! You see, I got punched in the eye once by this black kid when I was eight, and it's obviously way too late to track him down and get even now. But by your logic, I can just go sock the next darkie walking down the street, and I can have my amends. Thank you Adciv.
Wait... does this even need an explanation? It's pretty obvious you put the words in your own mouth. I made a point that the guy is over reacting, you said he was doing it to protect his property, I pointed out that his property had only been vandalized once, six years previously - a point that you were obviously willing to ignore for the benefit of your own arguement, so I got a bit snide about things. Kind of like how spikegirl thinks it's effective to smuggle drugs by sending immigrants walking through some desert. Try thinking before you start the rhetoric.


God damn it, now I'm angry at how stupid some of you are again. I swear, I can't go more than three days on this forum before I have to quit. I mean, I'm willing to argue with people, I'm willing to be wrong, but this is more like a game of whack-a-mole involving intellect. I can do it easily enough, but there's no reward for the effort. Note: This does not necessarily involve people such as Jerm, who has had to deal with the process, and can be both more informative about a process that I have not experienced, while also admitting his own bias. I mean hell, I figure if a person is willing to admit what they don't know, while contributing what they do know, we're all better off. But if you want to spout rhetoric bullshit without having to think things through? Get the fuck out.

And Adciv, the obvious answer here, which perhaps is my fault for assuming it was obvious, is to alert the local authorities regarding the issue. Theoretically, to my knowledge, the only time you have a right to act with force is when the threat is immediate. Some of this may vary by state law, but I'm pretty sure even down in Texas if this rancher actually shot a person, he could still be tried for murder - which does no benefit to himself. Even beyond that, his actions brought a lawsuit against him, a totally bunk and unneeded lawsuit, but one a pain in the ass that could have been avoided all the same.

And even beyond the legal bullshit, is it worth shooting a man because he walked across what is assumed to be unused miles of desert?

Hell man, you put your own damn words and implications in your own mouth. I'm just pointing out what you say.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Deacon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:24 am

SHUT UP MAV YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT



Mav wrote:Oh, yeah. You're totally right. Because the drug lords realized their best way to smuggle drugs across the border was to have destitute mexicans load up their pockets with coke and walk through 200 miles of desert. The speed boats, planes and tunnels were ultimately decided to be too obvious and risky.
Actually, yeah. Self-entitled border jumpers want to get across, and drug runners set it up. They'll get them across at the price of them taking the stuff with them. The success rate is pretty good, actually. They don't give up packing the stuff in trucks and running them across the border, but when they count 2/3rds of the stuff making it to its destination as a success, the whole using border jumpers as mules thing works out pretty well.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by adciv » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:43 am

Mav wrote:Alright, I'll break this down for you, and suffer through the infinite quote tags and explanations that I'm going to have to give for this to make sense.

I said this:
God forbid some people walk across your land. You better let your dog eat them.
You then said this:
And destroy his property and kill his cattle and break and enter into his house aside from the trespassing.
I then said this:
...So, because some dicks from, like, six years ago, decided to go and be dicks and fuck up some guy's shit, this now means some completely different people six years later are to blame?

This is awesome! You see, I got punched in the eye once by this black kid when I was eight, and it's obviously way too late to track him down and get even now. But by your logic, I can just go sock the next darkie walking down the street, and I can have my amends. Thank you Adciv.
Wait... does this even need an explanation? It's pretty obvious you put the words in your own mouth. I made a point that the guy is over reacting, you said he was doing it to protect his property, I pointed out that his property had only been vandalized once, six years previously - a point that you were obviously willing to ignore for the benefit of your own arguement, so I got a bit snide about things.
So I should have deleted the sentence "You better let your dog eat them." instead of leaving it in for the full quote. I didn't say that, YOU did. Someone damaged his property. Should he have to wait until it is damaged again to take steps to prevent it from happening again? Why should he not takes steps after the first time to make sure it doesn't happen again? How many times should he have had to endure damage until he could take steps to protect it? Or do you believe he should just let anyone trespass on his property, breaking multiple laws, and just hope no one does it again or wait until he catches someone in the act?
Try thinking before you start the rhetoric.
Take your own advice first.
God damn it, now I'm angry at how stupid some of you are again. I swear, I can't go more than three days on this forum before I have to quit. I mean, I'm willing to argue with people, I'm willing to be wrong, but this is more like a game of whack-a-mole involving intellect. I can do it easily enough, but there's no reward for the effort. Note: This does not necessarily involve people such as Jerm, who has had to deal with the process, and can be both more informative about a process that I have not experienced, while also admitting his own bias. I mean hell, I figure if a person is willing to admit what they don't know, while contributing what they do know, we're all better off. But if you want to spout rhetoric bullshit without having to think things through? Get the fuck out.
Now you know how I feel about your post.
And Adciv, the obvious answer here, which perhaps is my fault for assuming it was obvious, is to alert the local authorities regarding the issue. Theoretically, to my knowledge, the only time you have a right to act with force is when the threat is immediate. Some of this may vary by state law, but I'm pretty sure even down in Texas if this rancher actually shot a person, he could still be tried for murder - which does no benefit to himself. Even beyond that, his actions brought a lawsuit against him, a totally bunk and unneeded lawsuit, but one a pain in the ass that could have been avoided all the same.
Last I checked, it was legal for civilians to interfere during the commission of a crime. Also, he did NOT shoot anyone and he did not use any force, so that point has no merit. If he DID shoot someone, then we would be talking about that instead. He DID alert the authorities, he stopped them as well. Why should one preclude the other and why should he not be able to stop them?
And even beyond the legal bullshit, is it worth shooting a man because he walked across what is assumed to be unused miles of desert?
But he did NOT shoot anyone. Also, if it is fenced, as you say above, then how can it be assumed to be unused?
Hell man, you put your own damn words and implications in your own mouth. I'm just pointing out what you say.
Nope, you said stuff, I merely used a full quote of yours.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by collegestudent22 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:58 am

Mav wrote: ...So, because some dicks from, like, six years ago, decided to go and be dicks and fuck up some guy's shit, this now means some completely different people six years later are to blame?
Minorities do it all the time. For instance, black people were enslaved up until the 1860s and their descendants STILL take it out on the descendants of those that committed that crime.
Last edited by collegestudent22 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by adciv » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:04 am

Which wasn't even a crime at the time.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by Mav » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:27 am

...

Wait, I'll stop that. I was about to just get stuck type ellipses over and over again. Shock value. Any rate, thank you, I think I'm done here. You pretty much removed any need for a rebuttal on my part simply by agreeing with CS22 - especially in regards to the particular statement he just made.
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Re: Let's get caught and sue for $32M!

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:32 am

Am I the only one who thinks the anti-illeal-immigration movement is rather sabotaged by the attitude of its loudest members ?

eta: which is to say, perfectly valid points worth considering regularly get lost in the haze of how distasteful it can be to associate with such people, personally or even just intellectually.
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