Obama's plan for a government circle-stimulation

[collegestudent22]

This is one of those things where it's somehow perfectly fine for a private interest to do it, where that's a fucking sacrosanct right and howdare someone suggest it's wrong, but when the government turns around and does the same thing ("yes, I'll give you money, but only if you agree to my terms for it and do what I want you to do to earn it") it's the goddamn crime of the century, isn't it?

A private interest can't force companies to follow ridiculous legislation that helps PUT them in that position in the first place. For example, CAFE rules cost the Big Three billions every year, yet instead of relaxing those restrictions, Obama just boots out the leadership. None of it actually solves the problems, because Obama and his cronies have no idea how to run a business, or anything other than a campaign for that matter.

[StruckingFuggle]

... look, he's like a little talking points barometer!

[Mae Dean]

Obama and his cronies

his cronies

cronies

I want to punch you in your buzzword-spewing face. I don't even care what your political stance is. I really don't. I don't even necessarily disagree with you. I just hate it when people regurgitate terms OTHER people have used, and it becomes OBVIOUS where the term came from. Seriously, CS22. Have an original thought for once, please.

[collegestudent22]

cro·ny
n. pl. cro·nies
A longtime close friend or companion.

It is a word in the English language. My use of it does not mean that I took the idea from someone else or had an "unoriginal" thought. Or, we can just ban words we don't like and start using "newspeak". That sounds like a GREAT idea. It worked so well in Orwell's 1984.

[Mae Dean]

Don't bullshit a bullshitter, son. You use it because EVERYONE on the right was using it during the campaign. Just like everyone on the left had all their buzzwords to try and derail the McCain campaign. I know what it means. I know it has a valid use. I also know where YOU got 'hold of it, so don't try and play stupid with me.

[JermCool]

Look, I was pissed as hell at these companies that agreed to take the bailouts because I KNEW this kind of bullshit would take place. I was pissed as hell that these bailouts were even offered! I said it on Page 1 of this very thread that the government would take a controlling interest under the guise of protecting tax-payer dollars.

But it goes beyond that now. These are from the speech given today:

...a 21st century auto industry that is creating new jobs, unleashing new prosperity, and manufacturing the fuel-efficient cars and trucks that will carry us toward an energy independent future. I am absolutely committed to working with Congress and the auto companies to meet one goal: the United States of America will lead the world in building the next generation of clean cars.

No talk of incentives for the companies to build cleaner cars. They're just going to do it.

This is not meant as a condemnation of Mr. Wagoner, who has devoted his life to this company; rather, it’s a recognition that it will take a new vision and new direction to create the GM of the future.

Whose vision and direction are we talking here?

if you buy a car from Chrysler or General Motors, you will be able to get your car serviced and repaired, just like always. Your warranty will be safe. In fact, it will be safer than it’s ever been. Because starting today, the United States government will stand behind your warranty.

I know I'm not the only one who takes absolutely no comfort in this.

That is why today, I am designating a new Director of Recovery for Auto Communities and Workers to cut through red tape and ensure that the full resources of our federal government are leveraged to assist the workers, communities, and regions that rely on our auto industry.

Another government bureaucrat to cock things up.

And this:

These companies – and this industry – must ultimately stand on their own, not as wards of the state.

is not the same as saying these companies won't become state-owned enterprises.

[collegestudent22]

You use it because EVERYONE on the right was using it during the campaign.

Was that before or after I voted for a third party? (libertarian)

[Mae Dean]

I'm going to just take a page out of your book and choose to ignore your rebuttal by leaving. I don't have the energy to argue my point, what with you attempting to change it at every turn.

[Deacon]

Since using a superior position to negotiate a favorable outcome in an exchange, even where one part is in dire straits (in this case, the poorly managed wastrels), and even more dire straits if they don't get the aid of the superiorly positioned party (in this case, the federal government) is supposed to be neither coercion nor force, they're not forcing anyone, or even telling anyone "THIS IS HOW YOU MUST RUN YOUR BUSINESSES BECAUSE WE SAY SO" - it's part of an agreement, "if you do these things, you'll get this money; and conversely, you're perfectly free to not do things this way, but we're also under no obligation to give you this money, and we won't." They're setting the terms, that the companies are free to agree with or not, under which they will be bailed out ... or not.

[StruckingFuggle]

Hm. Perhaps I haven't considered that part enough. Okay. In that case, if they're altering an already agreed-upon contract, then that'd be a problem, but only within the realms of 'contract violation'.

[adciv]

It wasn´t a free market before either. Otherwise there wouldn´t have been subsidies for companies and penalty taxes for imports.

Name the subsidy AND name the penalty taxes.

Don't bullshit a bullshitter, son. You use it because EVERYONE on the right was using it during the campaign.

I seem to remember a LOT of people on the left using it too.

[ShahinVahdat]

Don't bullshit a bullshitter, son. You use it because EVERYONE on the right was using it during the campaign.

I seem to remember a LOT of people on the left using it too.

Just like everyone on the left had all their buzzwords to try and derail the McCain campaign.

And the next sentence in Greg's post essentially says the same thing

[adciv]

If I were talking about the left also using 'cronies' and I were posting what Greg was, I would have used different phrasing. You want to debate the English Language? I'll talk in the Arguments thread.

[Mae Dean]

"Cronies", specifically, was used almost RELIGIOUSLY by the McCain campaign. I can't hear the goddamned word without hearing it in his voice anymore. While it may have been used by the left, it was beaten into the ground by the right.

Seriously though, I just have a seething hatred of buzzwords. They're used to get an emotional response without requiring a good deal of thought. I'm not saying it's a left wing/right wing thing. I'm saying it's a dumbass thing. I wasn't even debating CS22's point - it was a valid one. My issue was related directly to the use of the buzzword.

[collegestudent22]

"Cronies", specifically, was used almost RELIGIOUSLY by the McCain campaign. I can't hear the goddamned word without hearing it in his voice anymore. While it may have been used by the left, it was beaten into the ground by the right.

Actually, it was beaten into the ground by the left before the 2008 campaign even began. It's just a word. Chill out.