Obama's plan for a government circle-stimulation

[Deacon]

What really bothers me is that they don't seem to be aware of or apologetic about what they've done wrong on both sides of the California aisle. It's like, "We did everything right but you know how Bush is. He went and screwed up the economy and therefore left us in the lurch."

[The Cid]

Small government, fiscally conservative, socially libertarian: don't tell me I can't marry another dude, don't tell me I can't smoke, don't arrest me for having a joint or two on me, prove that there's a significant problem and that the government's the only (or at least best) way to solve it before you start trying to solve it with government.... Generally just leave me the hell alone unless I'm actively hurting somebody, and we'll all get along.

First of all, amen. And might I add: welcome to my world. Prepare to be really disappointed when what seems like common sense is laughed off and ignored. Often.*

In all seriousness though, I honestly think that what's going on now might serve as a sort of wake-up call for this line of thinking. I've never seen more people so angry and/or disillusioned with both sides of the congressional aisle than there are right now. If that's not a silver lining in all this, I don't know what is.

*Yes, I know you didn't just come upon this now, but I felt like saying this anyway.

[Deacon]

Can anyone please help me understand WTF Obama is doing asking for an additional $75 billion of our dollars to bail out people who decided to get loans they knew they couldn't afford to pay back? Have you noticed how under this kind of regime, the people who actually make sound financial decisions or at least do what it takes to keep paying their bills are the ones that are really screwed?

So, by the way, what happened to all these claims that Obama is in any way a centrist or a moderate?

[collegestudent22]

5) We desperately need a Liberty-minded 3rd party, kind of like Libertarians except without the crazy. Small government, fiscally conservative, socially libertarian: don't tell me I can't marry another dude, don't tell me I can't smoke, don't arrest me for having a joint or two on me, prove that there's a significant problem and that the government's the only (or at least best) way to solve it before you start trying to solve it with government.... Generally just leave me the hell alone unless I'm actively hurting somebody, and we'll all get along.

So, basically, a party full of Glenn Becks? Because I know he is for small-government, fiscally conservative, and he describes himself as "libertarian-leaning" or "libertarian without all the crazy". In fact, he just advocated legalizing drugs and taxing them on his show last night.

So, by the way, what happened to all these claims that Obama is in any way a centrist or a moderate?

They only made sense if you though McCain was a far-right crazy, as opposed to the VERY moderate Republican he really was.

[Martin Blank]

Can anyone please help me understand WTF Obama is doing asking for an additional $75 billion of our dollars to bail out people who decided to get loans they knew they couldn't afford to pay back? Have you noticed how under this kind of regime, the people who actually make sound financial decisions or at least do what it takes to keep paying their bills are the ones that are really screwed?

I haven't seen any legislation, but I did hear someone on NPR today who said that people who bought outside their means wouldn't be helped by this. However, one of the proposals involves matching funds of some sort for writing down some loans. I didn't hear details on how this was supposed to work, but my understanding is that it wasn't going to cover the entire cost of the write-down.

Sounds a little like what I mentioned above, actually.

[Deacon]

Actually, I was listening to the radio on the way home this evening heard a few sentences from Obama's address where he says that the bill will only benefit those who play by the rules. And then he goes on to say that people who've taken mortgages they can't actually afford will be provided financial assistance and can have (via judges? I forget now) mortgage companies renegotiate mortgages so that people who bought more house than they can afford can take their neighbor's income in order to keep them in that above-their-means house. It appears to be based on percentage of income that's going toward the mortgage.

I really want to burn this shit down and build it back up right. What's the use of building a giant building in record time if the foundation and structural elements are shabby and fragile and weak?

[ShahinVahdat]

From what you're saying, I think you're talking about how the maximum amount of the monthly payment would be 31% of the family/person's income. Also, I believe the 75 billion is coming from the second half of the TARP money? I could be wrong.

[Martin Blank]

If it's based on proven income before some problem, then I have less of an issue with it. An auto worker who bought his home three years ago and lost his job last year and is having problem making his payments is a lot more acceptable to me than someone who got his home through a no-documents loan. One of the things that is going to be required under Obama's plan is that the mortgage must be backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.

Of course, this leaves the other millions of people with mortgages not backed by these institutions to wonder what happened to them.

[ampersand]

As much as it's the people who wouldn't qualify would be helped, if I understand it correctly it's precisely because they were given loans that they wouldn't be able to pay off is the reason why the economy is in such shambles. Not helping them doesn't help improve the economy, if that is Obama's goal.

[Deacon]

Doesn't it?

And no, MB, we're talking about people taking on 5-year interest-only ballooning loans and such and situations where the owner has gotten upside down on the note due to falling housing prices.

[collegestudent22]

Personally, I don't see a need for stimulus or helping the economy, or any shit like that. Why can't we just let it recover on its own? Sure it sucks for those caught in it, but I'm sick of this "Save Me" mentality. If your REALLY in that much trouble, you can enlist in the military. Sure it isn't GREAT, but you won't be homeless and you can start trying to rebuild your life at least......

[Arc Orion]

What about those of us who can't get into the military?

[StruckingFuggle]

Noble self-sacrifice in the name of serving your countries interests, or cheap ploy to get out of financial debt and desperate grab at an improved lot in life when you're down on your luck with nowhere else to turn? You decide!

[Deacon]

Does it matter?

[StruckingFuggle]

Other than undermining any sort of claims to nobility of military service? Not really.

Now, that being about the only recourse? Yes. That matters and is horrible but you know I don't really feel like arguing it right now. It does come a bit too close to indentured servitude as punishment for debt, though.