Ir-wii-sponsible - May 29, 2009

[Deacon]

Yeah, and re-run the alignment setup.

[Mae Dean]

While I don't own a Wii (yet) I am a huge fan of the bowling game.

The bowling game that was on what I basically consider the demo disc that comes with the console. Yeah - that's kind of the problem.

I realize that the comic did imply that I was saying there's NO good games for the Wii, and that IS untrue. But the signal to noise ratio is WAAAAY out of wack when compared with the 360 or the PS3. (I don't own a PS3, but I've seen a number of excellent games for it) It's the same problem you run into with the DS - Nintendo no longer has the rigorous licensing standards it used to (Hence the removal of the word "Quality" from its official seal) and now you just see a deluge of total and utter crap, with a few decent titles thrown in. The problem with the Wii is that it's almost EXCLUSIVELY casual fare, while I enjoy a healthy mix of casual and long-form games. Until we purchased EA Sports Active yesterday (again, not a GAME, per se....) I hadn't turned on the Wii in almost 6 months. And before that, when I HAD turned it on... it was to play old NES and N64 games - not a Wii game. That's pretty telling, right there. I'm just sayin'.

And yeah, I'll be picking up a MotionPlus when it's released, 'cause right now I freaking HAAAAAATE how bad the Wii's tracking is. It sucks balls, plain and simple.

[Kraggh]

Dear readers of the Ir-wii-sponsible topic,
To simply put it, people can be opinionated, especially when it comes to politics, religion, and competitive stuff. In this case, we are talking about competing products. Often times, people will develop a loyalty to a brand, and they will stick to it. In Greg's case, he prefers something other than the Wii. Not only that, but he makes fun of the Wii. Offensive, right? No.

I assure you, the author of this comic strip is not a hater. I, personally, also host a disliking for the Wii, and I too feel free to insult it. The only thing it's good for is shooting games, but otherwise, I have nothing good to say. Greg has, in past comic strips, also showed his stances against certain other products, in the meantime. What I think that we should all understand is that it is okay for someone to bash a product. Most of the time, such expression only indicates a disliking for the product, not its users, and the last time I checked, a product is not a person, nor is it a special item that traditionally requires respect, such as a wedding ring, a national flag, or a bible.

Also, there are reasons for disliking the Wii. People do not always need rational reasons for justifying certain positions, anyways. As Greg above me has clearly stated, he doesn't like any of the games that Wii has to provide. This is not just a matter of opinion, it is a matter of taste. Another word for that is preference. To make this clear, taste is what is agreeable or pleasing to one person. So, one could say that according to Greg's personal tastes, the Wii is not a good gaming system.

I rest my case.

Kraggh

[tnitnetny]

BLUE!!

If you can make it through the blue writing, the guy actually has a very logical and well worded post that I definitely agree with. I must make fun of the blue though. I can't help it. The blue hurt my eyes and was hard to read. If you make any other fanastic posts, please don't use colors in that way! This isn't myspace!

[Mika]

Eh, I think it just depends on a person and their tastes.

I like my Wii, in our house it is the most played system. We have an XBox 360 and pretty much never pick it up. I'm one of those people who don't really give a damn about "pretty graphics" and so the PS3 and X-Box don't really impress me or have games I want to play. Besides the Wii, we play our PCs a lot too.

But it usually just depends on what we feel like playing.

Oh also, if you're having problems with the Wii sensors, make sure there isn't an open window by the bar. Sunlight tends to mess up the connection.

[EBwiz]

I'm not really a fan of casual games... At least the crap on the Wii (Peggle is just fine but keep Carnival Games away from me), but I'd say the base of core games is getting stronger, like the ones I listed.

I would say that the virtual console also made the Wii a viable purchase... but I still have all those systems and games too.

@Kraggh: Couple things. One is that this is a forum, so we're allowed to discuss our personal tastes as opposed to others so long as we're being civil about it. I only go off the deep end when someone makes baseless claims such as calling people fanboys for offering an opposing opinion. Second, Greg stated that there are good games for the Wii and the idea that there are none (implied by the comic, which was just being funny) is untrue, so you're wrong in saying that he said there are no good games for the wii.

And finally, one's personal taste doesn't automatically make them right. I don't need to reiterate that saying the Wii has no good games makes it wrong because I've done so and Greg's done so. Likewise, someone may not like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Citizen Kane. That just means that person doesn't like them, doesn't mean they're bad movies and someone shouldn't say that they are when if they truly were bad, they wouldn't be taught in film schools.

All of that long text basically boils down to this: Because someone dislikes something doesn't mean we shouldn't disagree or talk about it. Otherwise, there's no point in having a forum at all.

[Mae Dean]

Well stated, except for the part where it's in blue. But yeah - good first post, dude.

I should also point out that I don't make it a habit to do thirteen hours of research on every comic to make sure I have every last possible fact straight. In my current, probably ill-informed opinion, the Wii is kinda meh. Is that the case? No, probably not. But there's also a large number of people out there that have the SAME opinion as me, and this comic is basically for them. If you disagree, that's your right. But you are not your console.

[Deacon]

Well stated, except for the part where it's in blue.

You have the power! You can edit it to remove that god-awful color tag!

[spikegirl7]

Deacon is evil because he made me think of He-Man.

Nothing Nintendo has done has really interested me in quite some time. I still have my NES in the closet, and it's fun enough. My SNES is retired due to soda My PS2 is currently the most used console in the house next to the computer. Final Fantasy, FTW!

[EBwiz]

I don't really think a preference can be ill-informed. But for the record I highly recommend all of the games I listed for the Wii, most specifically Punch-Out, Klonoa and No More Heroes. Those three titles alone have justified the money I spent in the Wii.

Still, I feel the idea that someone's preference should dictate how we should respond and react is a dangerous one. It's one thing to rant about your opinion's superiority (Which is usually told with bad grammar and a lot of 1s and !s), it's another entirely to disagree with a point of view and explain why and I think it's important to establish that line. With the exception of the guy who called people who defended the Wii "fanboys", I haven't seen any instance of that kind of trolling and don't think there's a need to start telling people to calm down. At that point we're just telling people they're not allowed to disagree with a point of view.

[Kraggh]

Concerning tnitnetny,
I usually post in blue in other forums, too. Old habits die hard.

Concerning EBwiz,
I see where my fallacy is. To be honest, though, I am not completely knowledgeable on Greg's standings, although it would be fair to say that I would fit under the category of people who "make it a habit to do thirteen hours of research on every comic to make sure I have every last possible fact straight". I went with what I thought I knew.

However, I can see where certain things that I said can be improved upon. The last sentence, for example, can have a further point built upon it. Regarding entertainment products, it is okay for someone to say that, according to their personal tastes, a product is good or bad. Through such an analysis, one can say what is good or bad for a specific individual. Such statement, however, do not suggest that a product is good or bad for a people as a whole. They exist purely to define one person's attitude. If this person thinks that something is good or bad, then they will always be correct, so long as they keep the perspective on themselves. However, they cannot use their personal tastes to justify what is good or bad for a product itself.

This is where opinions come in. Opinions are theories about larger realities than us. Beyond ourselves and our own preferences, there are other individuals with tastes that vary. What is good or bad for one isn't necessarily good or bad for another. Thus, one cannot judge what is good or bad for everyone else based on their own preferences, although their preferences can be used to support theories (Ex: If I want higher detail, then I bet that there are others who think so too). In general, though, when someone doesn't like something, they can't generalize and say that everybody else likes something too. Greg cannot say whether the Wii should or shouldn't be entertaining for others, and I don't believe he is. He can only say that for some, himself included, the Wii is a joke (pun intended).

Regarding entertainment as a business, a product usually adjusts to the tastes of a majority. In the case of the Wii, there is a majority of favorable opinions among its target audience. The Wii dislikers may not be in the majority, but that does not mean that it is bad for them to hold their opinions. However, while they can't say what is good or bad for the audience of an entertainment product, I find it worth mentioning that they can mention what is good or bad for a product itself. In this case, the focus switches from "What I want the Wii company to do," to "What the Wii company should do." Such opinions must be backed up with sound facts. One can look at sales of certain games and game counsels, poll opinions, and become familiar with the audience's general tastes. It takes some research, but from the things that are learned, a hypothesis can be developed. "If I change this and/or keep this the same, then this will happen." Such adjustments are always made make more money, and one of the key factors in deciding how much money is made is sales, which is in turn determined by how popular a product is with the tastes of its audience.

Reality, in the meantime, isn't necessarily about sales. It is aimed towards a narrow target audience. This audience can be defined as "people who are like Greg or his friends and can appreciate his type of humor." That's how most web comics work. While popularity can be cool, I doubt that making sure that his jokes reflect a majority's personal preference in a product isn't a concern. If we were talking about opinions, however, such as religion and politics, then that is an entirely different matter. Making jokes about how fun the Wii is, however, is acceptible, because it does not assault anything that anybody stands for. It is like joking about the Yankees.

Yeah, well, I kind of went off on a tangent there. The gist is: An individual can have a taste, and it does not need to be popular. What is preferable for one individual does not determine what is preferable for another.

Concerning Greg Dean,
Thank you very much. That just made my day.

Kraggh

[Deacon]

I don't really think a preference can be ill-informed.

Of course it can...

BLUE

STOP IT. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

[EBwiz]

@Kraggh: Fair enough. I can't respond to that entire post because, damn, that was a lot. Anyway, I'd say you're right about a lot (Except maybe the part about sales not being reality, but that's also because I'm a game developer myself) of things there and I'm glad you clarified. Yeah, Greg is allowed to state his preference, and that's cool. He's also allowed to say it doesn't have any good games in a comic, because it's a comic and it's supposed to be funny, and hyperbole is a good tool for humor. Still, I figured we'd see the kind of system war nonsense we always see, and jumped to the forum because hell, it's good discussion.

However, even if you don't like any game for the Wii (And I can't imagine that being the case for everyone) you can't just say the Wii doesn't have any good games. That's not an opinion - it's just blatantly wrong. You can say "I don't like any games for the Wii", (Or rather "I don't like any of the games I have played for the Wii so far"). What makes something bad is how it's made, not personal preference. I think it's a very important distinction to make, because when you start to generalize, that's when flame wars start, or worse, people just snuff out conversation altogether by hiding behind the "it's my opinion!" defense, and that's what started to scare me about this thread and you're initial post.

Over all though, it seems we agree that people can have their tastes and discuss it, so we'll leave it at that.

[Mae Dean]

[Mav]

You left out the tl;dr.