Okay, I will stop. Although I might be tempted to try out chartreuse...
Concerning EBwiz,
Sales themselves are reality. Sales are facts. The marriage of fact and logic is what forms a sound opinion. In other words, sales are real, but opinions on what should be done to improve sales is theory. I can see where the overall theme of the post might have seemed confusing around that area, though, so I can't blame any misunderstandings. It happens all the time.EBwiz wrote:@Kraggh: Fair enough. I can't respond to that entire post because, damn, that was a lot. Anyway, I'd say you're right about a lot (Except maybe the part about sales not being reality, but that's also because I'm a game developer myself) of things there and I'm glad you clarified.
It is good how it gives the Wii lovers an excuse to retaliate and make fun of whatever Greg is a fan of (I'm not totally sure right now), which is all in good fun. Hyperbole, yes, is definitely good. I couldn't have said it better myself.EBwiz wrote:Yeah, Greg is allowed to state his preference, and that's cool. He's also allowed to say it doesn't have any good games in a comic, because it's a comic and it's supposed to be funny, and hyperbole is a good tool for humor. Still, I figured we'd see the kind of system war nonsense we always see, and jumped to the forum because hell, it's good discussion.
Well, now we are getting very technical on how someone can state how something fits their preferences. The wording of such statements range from poor to perfect. It's usually the former, though I prefer the latter. You're right with both of those example statements, and I can see how "None of the games on the Wii are good" is improper. "Good" can be confused with something other than preference.EBwiz wrote:However, even if you don't like any game for the Wii (And I can't imagine that being the case for everyone) you can't just say the Wii doesn't have any good games. That's not an opinion - it's just blatantly wrong. You can say "I don't like any games for the Wii", (Or rather "I don't like any of the games I have played for the Wii so far"). What makes something bad is how it's made, not personal preference.
However, I think that it is important to acknowledge that an opinion can be wrong, even blatantly wrong. I can have an opinion that all Americans are hopeless slobs without variation. It would be blatantly wrong, but it would still be an opinion.
Of course, sometimes people will base an entire opinion off of their tastes. It would be a fallacy to essentially say "The Wii will fail because I don't like it." The specific fallacy is called personal incredulity, the idea that because something seems hard to personally believe, it must be false. In this case, if someone has a hard time liking the Wii themselves, sometimes it can be hard to believe that others would, too.
The "It's my opinion!" defense is indeed a fallacy. One of the reasons is that people often confuse opinions with tastes. Certainly, one can say, in various ways, that they are not a fan of the Wii. Heck, it can be said and just be left at that. However, once someone uses the word "opinion", then there is fallacy. People do not like fallacy. Sometimes one cannot put their finger down on what is wrong with a statement, but if they can sense it, they will often pounce.EBwiz wrote:I think it's a very important distinction to make, because when you start to generalize, that's when flame wars start, or worse, people just snuff out conversation altogether by hiding behind the "it's my opinion!" defense, and that's what started to scare me about this thread and you're initial post.
Also, it is good to discuss exactly what your tastes are. It is beneficial to be clearly understood.
Agreed.EBwiz wrote:Over all though, it seems we agree that people can have their tastes and discuss it, so we'll leave it at that.
Concerning Greg Dean,
Actually, I'll admit, when it comes to wording, that makeshift strip was awesome, and the abnormality of it got me laughing. If you are familiar with Andy Weir, he had a term called one-percenter jokes, or jokes that very few would find amusing but would pack an extra punch for them because they weren't expecting it. In this case, I'm in the 1%.
Kraggh
