1.26.2010 - DERP!

[Mae Dean]

I think of in-show relationships as something writers genuinely fear. It's almost a universally accepted fact that when two characters are attracted to each other, getting them together in any real way would "ruin" the series.

I call baloney. What it DOES do is change the way you WRITE the series. You have to try harder. The whole Jim & Pam thing works, in my opinion, but the lack of pranks and other whatnot aren't really related, I don't think... I think it's a completely unrelated phenomena. I think they're actually one of the most believable on-show romances I've EVER seen. Lorelai and Luke from Gilmore Girls tried, but they were both a little too distanced from each other to be believable. I kind of see that as a lazy writer, to be honest. I think they just think relationships are boring or something.

What's even weirder is that writers don't necessarily tend to shy away from established relationships - Chuck has Elly and Captain Awesome, White Collar has Peter and Elizabeth, How I Met Your Mother has Marshall & Lily... what it comes down to, really, is the fear of changing the character dynamic. When a relationship is ESTABLISHED, maintaining the status quo is easy. When a relationship has to happen, believably, on screen... that's a little tougher.

I suffer from the same sorts of hangups, though... the whole Space Station storyline was a year delayed because I knew that writing it was going to change the status quo of the comic. It's a HARD thing to deal with as a writer, because you're constantly going to be second-guessing whether or not your creation was "better" before you changed things. Life ain't static, though. It's a constantly changing thing, and to stay fresh and relevant, in-show character dynamics should change too.

[ShadowDog]

I call this trend to never have people get together or stay together "Joss Whedon Disease." It happened before him, of course, but he was most famous for it because nobody ever fucking stays together in his shows! He comes right out and says this is because "stable long term relationships don't make for good drama". Oh really? That's just scared lazy writing. There's so much you can do with a couple together, so much drama and tension you could delve into, that never gets explored in TV. <long angry rant deleted>

Which brings us back to Heroes. The same kind of fear has led to the pussification of Sylar and Peter. "Oh noes! They're too powerful! We don't know what to do with them! Nobody can consistently write about a character this powerful for very long!" Yo, my man, somehow they've managed to write Superman for ... oh I don't know ... a hundred fucking years. Grrrrr.

[terminal2k]

i still enjoy heroes. I think it is a more entertaining for peter to just have one power at a time. I'm surprised that sylar still plays such a major part of the storyline tho.

I'm not going to say it is the best show ever but I still wait for it to come out each week. Also, it's one of the few shows you crazy americans haven't cancelled yet. It seems you love to cancel any good show that doesn't immediately show a 10000% profit....

[ShadowDog]

If you can't get enough Heroes, check out The 4400 on DVD. It was rocking, had a similar premise, and lasted four seasons so that'll last you a while.

[Winterbay]

On a side note, why is there not a single show with satisfactory romantic conclusions. It's always "we might be in love, or maybe not", or "we want to, but X is in the way/means we can't". FFS, just have the hero in one show actually be able to get a girlfriend. Chuck can't be with Sarah because they're fucking spies. Hiro can't be with Charlie because she's lost in time. I don't even want to get into Michael and Fiona. Castle and Beckett. Spencer and O'Hara. The only show I can remember off the top of my head that gets even close is Numbers and that took up until the fifth season. I get the need for tension, but there could be at least a little realism in there. Or at least something that makes me feel happy for the characters - especially when they go to such pains to point out that the characters do love each other.

I found that the relationships in "Without a Trace" was quite good and believable as well. It's just a shame that they decided to drop the show before the marriage between Elena and Danny could actually make any impact (seeing as it ended with everyone going to their wedding...)

[Deacon]

I was about to rail you for the irony in your sig, but then I realized you're in Sweden, and as such it's unlikely that English is your first language

[TomXP411]

I figure it has to do with people loving romantic relationships. The Office, as an example, was most intriguing to me before Pam and Jim truly got together. I liked to watch their flirtations and was so happy when I watched his proposal and everything leading up to it. But now there isn't much spark between the two of them and the show isn't as interesting to me. Although, that could also be due to the fact that there aren't as many pranks as there once was.

That's because the pre-conjugal romantic tension is the most interesting part of a relationship. Once a couple actually "gets together", it's just not as much fun to watch. They go from being the "will they ever get it on?" couple to the ones that make you go "blech!" every time they call each other a pet name and rub noses.

When Tony and Angela got married in Who's the Boss, some of the spark went out of the show
Mork and Mindy were a huge hit... until they got married
Lois and Clark was almost entirely fueled by the romantic tension between... Lois and Clark. The final season was pretty dull.
And how many episodes of Friends made us wonder how much longer the show's two couples were going to leave us hanging? And how many of us went "meh" when they finally settled down?
Speaking of Heroes, if Claire and Gretchen did finally settle down, what would Analee over on io9 have to rant about?

Then there are the exceptions: the few epic geniuses who manage to find the comedy and tension in the post-joining stage of a relationship: Chuck Lorre is doing a great job of that on The Big Bang Theory, and of course, there's the greatest writer in the entertainment biz today: he bucked the trend by skipping most of the courtship and going straight to the "together" stage of the relationship: Greg Dean, with his saga Real Life.

[TomXP411]

The same kind of fear has led to the pussification of Sylar and Peter. "Oh noes! They're too powerful! We don't know what to do with them! Nobody can consistently write about a character this powerful for very long!" Yo, my man, somehow they've managed to write Superman for ... oh I don't know ... a hundred fucking years. Grrrrr.

Superman's best conflicts are the ones that he couldn't solve by being stronger or faster than his enemies. One of the things I loved about the Bruce Timm animated series (Superman and Justice League) is that they've found plenty of ways to make Big Blue and his friends work for their victory.

And the funny thing about Peter/Sylar is that we don't really see them using their powers that much... it's as if the show is a soap opera about people that happen to have super-powers. You could replace any of the mutants with a reality show TV star (with no super-powers), and you wouldn't have to re-write a single line of the show. Well, maybe you'd have to take out the "Claire gets hurt and heals just so we can remember what she does" bit, but that's really about it.

[Winterbay]

I was about to rail you for the irony in your sig, but then I realized you're in Sweden, and as such it's unlikely that English is your first language

Heh Well, yes. However I do keep doing that same mistake over and over again. *sigh*
I really hate that "then" and "than" are not the same word

[Deacon]

Well, that's mostly a pronunciation problem. Then and Than are two very different words that are, really, supposed to be pronounced differently when enunciating properly. Most of the time people just sort of mumble their way through it, though.

[ShadowDog]

Superman's best conflicts are the ones that he couldn't solve by being stronger or faster than his enemies. One of the things I loved about the Bruce Timm animated series (Superman and Justice League) is that they've found plenty of ways to make Big Blue and his friends work for their victory.

Exactly. There are plenty of ways to make an extra superpowered person work to achieve victory if you're not a lazy writer. Superman writers have been doing it for years.

[collegestudent22]

Kryptonite. More kryptonite. Lasers that magically hurt Superman for some reason. And that isn't lazy writing?

[terminal2k]

Kryptonite. More kryptonite. Lasers that magically hurt Superman for some reason. And that isn't lazy writing?

Of course not, the lasers were obviously manufactured on krypton, or the beams are shot through pieces of kryptonite....................

[collegestudent22]

Regardless, the guy is fucking invincible to almost everything. And you know what happens when you write that in at the start? One of three things: Stalemate until hero 'magically' discovers way to win, use of that one weakness over and over and over again, or writing that is on par or WORSE than Heroes in terms of ridiculous workarounds. At least Heroes has people with other superpowers that may be able to get around that overpowered guy - mind manipulation can work fairly well regardless of physical prowess. But Superman..... nope.

And I seem to remember quite a few times where Superman was somehow captured - off-screen/before the episode of course, so they don't have to explain how - and 'brainwashed' into being a bad guy. But then, he magically becomes unbrainwashed, because despite being able to capture FUCKING Superman, they can't come up with a viable system of brainwashing that actually works.

[serindela]

Regardless, the guy is fucking invincible to almost everything. And you know what happens when you write that in at the start? One of three things: Stalemate until hero 'magically' discovers way to win, use of that one weakness over and over and over again, or writing that is on par or WORSE than Heroes in terms of ridiculous workarounds. At least Heroes has people with other superpowers that may be able to get around that overpowered guy - mind manipulation can work fairly well regardless of physical prowess. But Superman..... nope.
.

Actually, Syler wasn't invincibale till he got clairs powers which was, if I remember right, the end of season one. Before that he could have been killed, just with some difficulty. Then they gave him clairs powers and he heals himself. No dieing.