1.26.2010 - DERP!

[Remolay]

you dont remember right, start of season 3. I've stopped watching because I'm too lazy to get on hulu

[FireAza]

I think of in-show relationships as something writers genuinely fear. It's almost a universally accepted fact that when two characters are attracted to each other, getting them together in any real way would "ruin" the series.

I call baloney. What it DOES do is change the way you WRITE the series. You have to try harder. The whole Jim & Pam thing works, in my opinion, but the lack of pranks and other whatnot aren't really related, I don't think... I think it's a completely unrelated phenomena. I think they're actually one of the most believable on-show romances I've EVER seen. Lorelai and Luke from Gilmore Girls tried, but they were both a little too distanced from each other to be believable. I kind of see that as a lazy writer, to be honest. I think they just think relationships are boring or something.

What's even weirder is that writers don't necessarily tend to shy away from established relationships - Chuck has Elly and Captain Awesome, White Collar has Peter and Elizabeth, How I Met Your Mother has Marshall & Lily... what it comes down to, really, is the fear of changing the character dynamic. When a relationship is ESTABLISHED, maintaining the status quo is easy. When a relationship has to happen, believably, on screen... that's a little tougher.

I suffer from the same sorts of hangups, though... the whole Space Station storyline was a year delayed because I knew that writing it was going to change the status quo of the comic. It's a HARD thing to deal with as a writer, because you're constantly going to be second-guessing whether or not your creation was "better" before you changed things. Life ain't static, though. It's a constantly changing thing, and to stay fresh and relevant, in-show character dynamics should change too.

In my opinion, this is a symptom of the way American TV shows are produced (i.e funded by the TV networks) which normally dictates that shows run indefinitely (to quote Troy McLure on The Simpsons) "until the show becomes unprofitable". If the writers were to drastically alter the plot, such as having two characters get together, there's the possibility of writing themselves into a corner, or perhaps killing off something the audience liked, thus impacting the show's staying power.

Sometimes I wish US TV shows would take a cue from Japanese TV shows and have the shows planned to end after a single season. Again, this is a symptom of how TV shows are produced in Japan, with the people producing the show footing most of the bill themselves, which creates a "oh crap oh crap oh crap, this show about an overly-sexualised magical girl who fights phallic monsters is freakin' expensive to make!" moment. This actually encourages to writers actually to make shit happen because there's no point in stalling the story because it'll be all over soon. About the only American TV series I can think of that does this is the awesome Band of Brothers, and that's probably what makes it so good is because the story actually progresses and reaches a conclusion!

By comparison, in Futurama the only time Fry and Leela's relationship really advances is at the end of the fourth movie. Which if you ask me, only happened in order to setup a massive cliff-hanger so Fox would decide to produce more episodes. While say in Lovely Complex, which only ran for 24 episodes, the story goes as such: girl and guy meet, they don't like each other. Girl and guy start hanging out due to varying circumstances. Girl starts to fall for guy. Girl confesses her love, but is turned down twice, once when the guy didn't grasp what she was saying, and the next because guy doesn't like her in that way. Guy and girl continue on as friends. Guy starts to fall for girl. Guy askes girl out. Guy and girl become a couple. Or in Suzuka: Guy meets girl, falls in love. Girl turns him down. Guy meets different girl who has always had a crush on him. Girl confesses love to guy. Guy accepts, they start going out. Things don't go so well, they break up. Previous girl comes to love guy, they start going out.

If you ask me, this is much more interesting than the perpetual "will they, won't they" of many long-running US TV series (and anything based on Rumiko Takahashi's works).

[collegestudent22]

Sometimes I wish US TV shows would take a cue from Japanese TV shows and have the shows planned to end after a single season.

Frankly, the problem wouldn't be solved that way, either. That causes the related Japanese TV problem of "cram it all together really quickly".

An ideal solution would be to create the pilot episode as normal, but actually plan the whole series to be X episodes long - whether that is one season or ten, or anywhere in between. And actually have the networks commit to the entire series after that first season - not plod along one season at a time. Leaving it open like that causes writers to attempt the status quo so that the show doesn't venture into potentially dangerous territory (what if the audience doesn't like it), while producers eventually cancel the show without a real ending after people get tired of watching the same thing, like Chuck and Sarah in "it's complicated" mode, for five seasons.

[Deacon]

By comparison, in Futurama the only time Fry and Leela's relationship really advances is at the end of the fourth movie.

Which?

[Winterbay]

By comparison, in Futurama the only time Fry and Leela's relationship really advances is at the end of the fourth movie.

Which?

Looks like this one in the plot description at least:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama:_ ... een_Yonder

[ShadowDog]

Sometimes I wish US TV shows would take a cue from Japanese TV shows and have the shows planned to end after a single season.

Frankly, the problem wouldn't be solved that way, either. That causes the related Japanese TV problem of "cram it all together really quickly".

Well, your milage may vary, but I thought the season season series Daybreak and Harper's Island had a perfect length. No filler and nothing too crammed in where they ran out of time. Done right, it can work in certain concepts. For instance, Heroes would have been an epic single season series if they'd had the time and money to do the climatic Peter vs Sylar battle right.

[teddy]

BSG was a good example of planning an ending. 4 seasons let the characters grow and change, but wasn't so damn long that cast members started dropping like flies out of fear of being stuck in that role forever.

[collegestudent22]

Done right, it can work in certain concepts. For instance, Heroes would have been an epic single season series if they'd had the time and money to do the climatic Peter vs Sylar battle right.

It would have been, but it would have also had the no/too much character growth problem. Single season shows are great for action and all (DBZ probably should have only been one season), but believable character growth is something that requires a bit more time. Using all that time and having static characters - or characters with unrealistic growth limits imposed - is the problem.

[Arc Orion]

I believe FireAza was using the one season time span as an example. For example, Cowboy Bebop had an ongoing story and several filler episodes, none of which seemed unnaturally rushed. An even better example is the Fullmetal Alchemist anime. While based loosely upon the manga, it had a plot planned out and implemented over the course of fifty-one episodes. Major characters entered, played their parts, and exited the story within the rather expansive series. The same could be said of Death Note, which played out in anime over a thirty-seven episode span.

In regards to "played out" television serials, I can see where he's coming from in some instances, but not others. Heroes should have ended long ago. The Simpsons is around just because it's still popular. It's even a bit of a joke in the show that their isn't any real development - just more of the same stuff. On the other hand, I thought Farscape could have gone on for another season or two. Shows like The Twilight Zone could potentially go on into perpetuity. There's no real reason to cancel it as long as stories that are good and fit the theme exist. Battlestar Galactica is a great example of a show that ended juuusst about on time.

[FireAza]

Sometimes I wish US TV shows would take a cue from Japanese TV shows and have the shows planned to end after a single season.

Frankly, the problem wouldn't be solved that way, either. That causes the related Japanese TV problem of "cram it all together really quickly".

That's totally true too. A common complaint when a manga gets adapted is that they've gutted a lot of content or left out the ending entirely.

By comparison, in Futurama the only time Fry and Leela's relationship really advances is at the end of the fourth movie.

Which?

Hm, I thought most people were aware of which number each Futurama movie is. Yeah, I was talking about Into the Wild Green Yonder.

I believe FireAza was using the one season time span as an example. For example, Cowboy Bebop had an ongoing story and several filler episodes, none of which seemed unnaturally rushed. An even better example is the Fullmetal Alchemist anime. While based loosely upon the manga, it had a plot planned out and implemented over the course of fifty-one episodes. Major characters entered, played their parts, and exited the story within the rather expansive series. The same could be said of Death Note, which played out in anime over a thirty-seven episode span.

Yeah, these two series have done this very well. Despite FMA going for a rather long length, it never felt stretched out. In each episode, something important to the plot occurred, and the story moved along.

The Simpsons is around just because it's still popular. It's even a bit of a joke in the show that their isn't any real development - just more of the same stuff. On the other hand, I thought Farscape could have gone on for another season or two. Shows like The Twilight Zone could potentially go on into perpetuity.

I think this is one of the key differences between The Simpsons and Futurama: The Simpsons is based in reality, while Futurama can make-up whatever crap it likes because "it's in the future". With The Simpsons running so long, they've done a few episodes where I've had to think to myself, "OK, that was a little far-fetched" which makes me think they're running low on ideas. The way recent episodes seem to revolve mostly around celebrity appearances and Homer getting hurt is an example of this.

Also, wasn't The Twilight Zone a bunch of short stories? Continuity wouldn't be much of an issue for this series, you'd just need to keep coming up with interesting story ideas.

[Arc Orion]

That's why it'd be able to go into perpetuity. Interesting stories abound!

[JermCool]

And wouldn't that be great news, everyone?