Evangelion

The_Strong_Jaeger · Post by **The_Strong_Jaeger** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:34 am

They were not trying to "save man from itself". They were doing mankind a "favor" by artificially forcing its evolution.

ChronoSword · Post by **ChronoSword** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:39 am

Wasn't it more Seele doing it not Nerv?

The_Strong_Jaeger · Post by **The_Strong_Jaeger** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:32 am

Nerv was created and run by Seele to achieve Instrumentality. To the public, NERV's job was to destroy the angels to save Humanity. The public didn't know that destroying the angels was the first step to Instrumentality. Not even the Japanese government knew until near the end, which is why they sent in the JSSDF in EoE, to try and stop it.

Fenix23 · Post by **Fenix23** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:04 am

But Gendo Ikari had his own agenda, and went against Seele's wishes, in an attempt to control what was going to happen.

Ok... Here's my explanation of this fact, but it must be tied in with an explanation of eps 25 & 26 and EoE.

To Accomplish Instrumentality, Seele needed Unit 01 which was different from the other Eva's because it was created using some original material of Adam (the first Angel, or Giant of Light... compare the outlines) to come in contact with Lilith. (Quick Trivia, Lillith is the name given to the woman who marries Cain from the Bible... or so it is gossipped) They also need that the pilot of this EVA have an incomplete soul, and by that, they mean that he has emotional problems and sees himself as not whole. For Seele has concieved the idea that the next evolution of Man be one where we are all joined in a collective of sorts, no distinguishable seperations, just intermingled consciouness... So the pilot (an important ingredient to the mix) must be insecure enough to agree with this idea that in order for things to become perfect, we must all combine our thoughts. Our insecurities will be filled by others... and we will know no sadness. Gendo Ikari wants to see his wife, and so he attempts to use Rei to fufill this desire, i assume he figured if he controlled her, he'd control Lillith and therefore the path that the Human Instrumentality program would take.

What people need to do, is watch EoE, and insert the mental dialogue from Episodes 25 & 26 into the correct places. Example: Asuka at the bottom of the pond, feeling she's worthless, then finding her mom's soul in the EVA and understanding the AT field, this matches up with her mental breakdown in the ending episodes of the series.

Back to the explanation: Shinji, through his interactions with Misato and and Asuka and others... was feeling more secure about himself and raising his self esteem. Then comes the 17th Angel, whom Shinji sees as a friend, someone he bonds to almost instantly, because of his deep emoutional need to be accepted (this is created by all the times that his father rejected him, partially because his father was thinking ahead and attempting to bring about his reunion with Yui) well after the death of the 17th angel, Shinji becomes emotionally distraught, and this becomes a perfect time for Seele to act... I'm sure they leak the info to the Japanese gov't to force their plan into action.
Shinji does eventually combine with Lillith, and 3rd Impact occurs, every living person's AT field collapses (because of the inverted AT field being broadcast from the Lillith/EVA 01 combination, this neutralizes AT fields) and everyone turns into LCL. This corresponds with most of episode 26, and the internal debates Shinji has there. When you link them up with EoE and you also use what Rei tells him, you realize that Shinji eventually comes to terms with his insecurity and since the fate of the world, and mankind's evolution rest completely on the way he perceives the world, when he decides he doesn't want to be all alone, then i think the world becomes altered to fit his subconscious wishes... I'd like to say that him and Asuka are the new Adam and Eve, but The end of the end of Evangelion still has me stumped... i guess i could boot the old VCR up and watch the final episodes again, but it's 1 AM... and i need to sleep.

Feel free to add to this explanation... it's totally original, since most people just say "i didn't understand it" or "my head exploded" i feel i am one of the few who has given a semi-good explanation.

oh and yeah, i read page 1 and 2, then jumped to 21... so this may be old news if someone thinks like i do, and posted long ago

ChronoSword · Post by **ChronoSword** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:17 pm

Quick Trivia, Lillith is the name given to the woman who marries Cain from the Bible... or so it is gossipped

If you read earlier in the thread or maybe you missed it, you would have seen that Lillith was the original wife of Adam.

Fenix23 · Post by **Fenix23** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:05 pm

About Lillith... since she is never mentioned in the Bible, there is no real origin of that name, White Wolf entertainment uses Lillith in the background story behind the creation of vampires. They assume that Cain met Lillith in the land of Nod, being we know that Cain went there, and that he found a wife.

I've never heard the "Lillith is Adam's first wife" theory, i'll have to scan back and see whether or not they present a worthwhile argument.

ChronoSword · Post by **ChronoSword** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:42 pm

http://lizabets-vault.com/lilith.html

ChronoSword · Post by **ChronoSword** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:42 pm

http://lizabets-vault.com/lilith.html

The_Strong_Jaeger · Post by **The_Strong_Jaeger** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:23 pm

It's not in the Bible, as pointed out. There are other equally valid Holy Books out there, ya know.

As for your explanation; yeah, that's pretty good. I have never understood why people felt it was so confusing. I thik that they went into expecting to be confused, and so they let themselves be confused. If you ever actually stop and think about it, it's not that hard at all.

lifedeath · Post by **lifedeath** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:26 pm

thought : wouldn't it be funny if the thread had in the background the evangelion theme playing

ChronoSword · Post by **ChronoSword** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:44 am

I am suprised this was put to the next page.

The_Strong_Jaeger · Post by **The_Strong_Jaeger** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:01 am

Holy shit why did you bring this thread back?

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:51 am

I was upset then I bought Death and Rebirth and the first half of EoE. they basically summed up the whole series. I do agree however that the last two episodes in the series were definately sucky. however, Amana, they were all clapping because Shinji finally realized that it was him that "created" that realm...and that that wasn't how it had to be. In a sense, he "grew up" (or atleast that's how I saw it.)

The_Strong_Jaeger · Post by **The_Strong_Jaeger** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:03 pm

He finally came to terms with the fact thet everyone is seperate. You really need to take EoE and the last two episodes together; EoE is what is happening in the real world, and the last two episodes are what is happening in Shinji's mind.

It's like when he is told "Everyone will be seperate again. People will hurt each other." And he simply responded with "That's ok, because I want to see them again."

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:52 am

i wasn't able to finish EoE because the DVD I had bought was bad it just stopped playing at the 61minute mark. I have anothe rone coming soon though

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