MAC on PC?

corebreach · Post by **corebreach** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:17 am

PDFs are evil unless they're text and printed out. But there are HTML and word docs for that laready, don't see the point in a 3rd format.

billf · Post by **billf** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:31 am

PDFs are fine if they are done in the right way. I've seen them done very well, and I've also sent them back to customers as unusable (the customer reps love me when I do that... especially when I've already told the customer I can't use what they've sent me).

Felan · Post by **Felan** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:39 pm

I prefer using PDFS for cross platforming wether its mac/pc/linux/pda/etc as unlike say html or .doc files PDFs retain all their original formatting. .html formatting can change greatly due to browser differences and can be the same for .doc files.
I think there is a .pdf reader out there for almost any system nowadays

Plus you can set up privilages to PDFs that you really cant do on html or .doc files (such as limited printing and passwords)

Infin8Cyn · Post by **Infin8Cyn** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:59 pm

My issue with PDFs is when it's a text document that instead of being pasted in as text, is pasted in as an image, so that it's absolutely no good to use the text tool on, and copy and paste. That's bugs the piss outta me.

ParallaxTZ · Post by **ParallaxTZ** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:33 pm

"better graphics acceleration in the OS"
NOT hardware specific, windows still doesn't use graphics acceleration for it's GDI, MACOS does.

"standard graphics format"
use a mac to do graphics sometime, every graphical thing is converted into the "standard format" and can be brought across into any program (note ANY program, not just any graphics program), in windows, this is not the case and many conversions and work arounds need to be done

the MAC os and windows OS have differing color algorithms that they appear to use when they send color data to the hardware. this is why colors of the same image look different between the OSes. some say that this is due to the "pallete" used by the OSes, but this cannot be the case when using 16-bit color (pallette's only exist in 8-bit mode) ... but it is true that browser's between the OSes (and even browsers on the same OS) tend to use different pallette's for their color displaying (i.e. html elements that have a color set), this is why you'll find listings for "standard web pallette" -- these are the colors that look the same cross browser & cross platform (at least between windows and mac)

as for PDFs, the unable to edit the text is half the point usually, not only do you want to be cross platform, you don't want other people editing it... also, they have great compression algorithms

[edit]
also, a random note about hardware
MACs (PPC line, basically any mac made within more than a few years) have many more registers on their hardware (CPU) than PCs (x86 lines, basically almost any PC) do. This helps the MAC processor perform various functions much faster than a PC. (As a side note, it also makes emulation of a PCC MAC impossible on a PC due to speed issues.)

andyvn · Post by **andyvn** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:43 pm

[quote="ParallaxTZ";p="182531"]"better graphics acceleration in the OS"
NOT hardware specific, windows still doesn't use graphics acceleration for it's GDI, MACOS does.[/quote]

It's Mac. Not an acronym.

"standard graphics format"
use a mac to do graphics sometime, every graphical thing is converted into the "standard format" and can be brought across into any program (note ANY program, not just any graphics program), in windows, this is not the case and many conversions and work arounds need to be done

Are you sure that's not a little outdated? Granted, I haven't done much heavy graphics work on PCs, at least not inter-application work, but that seems like a rumor to me.

MACs (PPC line, basically any mac made within more than a few years) have many more registers on their hardware (CPU) than PCs (x86 lines, basically almost any PC) do. This helps the MAC processor perform various functions much faster than a PC. (As a side note, it also makes emulation of a PCC MAC impossible on a PC due to speed issues.)

I'd like to clarify that. What it is, really, is that the x86 pipeline, the way the processor handles data, contains 21 (I believe) "stages", each of which the data must complete before it can reach its destination. The PPC processor contains 7. (Again, I believe. If someone knows, please tell me the actual numbers.) Due to this, even though the processor runs at a slower clock speed (MHz), the data needs only to complete 7 stages, and therefore can be processed faster in some instances even though it takes it longer to complete each stage. This is especially true when a branch is reached in the code -- an if/then statement or some other piece of code that relies on previous data to execute. The first data must go through, and the pipeline cannot even BEGIN to load more data until the first data is all the way through. That yields 21 unused cycles per branch, whereas on the PPC, it's only 7 unused cycled per branch. The G5 works even faster, but I'm not quite up to date on it yet, so I won't risk trying to explain it and ending up saying something wrong.

Post by **Martin Blank** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:56 pm

Though I'm platform agnostic, I'd be interested in learning what this "standard format" is, as every Mac graphics app I've seen has defaulted to TIFF, which is an industry-wide format. However, those same apps will work just fine with JPG, PNG, GIF, or whatever.

I believe (and billf can correct me on this one if necessary) that applications for professional use get certified by various companies (like PANTONE) that they match the proper output. These applications often run on more than one platform and produce identical output.

Saying that there's no such thing as a 16-bit palette is inane. A palette is a range of colors; the bit description provides for how many colors (8-bit palettes have 256 possible colors; 16-bit have 65,536; 24-bit have 16,777,216; and 32-bit have 4,294,967,296 possible colors).

Exported PDFs use little or no compression that I've ever seen; in fact, many PDFs are significantly larger than the original document, even without included binaries. Crack one open in Notepad and check out the text that makes up the document. The format is openly specified by Adobe; if you wanted to, you could hand-write a PDF in Notepad.

Macs have been proven, time and again, to be, on average, no faster or slower than a PC. We've seen that debate here on numerous occasions.

Nanosphere · Post by **Nanosphere** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:00 pm

I have not used Macs much but I do not believe that neither a Mac nor a PC is "better" than the other. To me it's like comparing apples and oranges. There is no such thing as a "superior" operating system, they all have strengths and weaknesses and each is more suited for performing different tasks. Everyone will have their own perferred enviroment they are more comfortable with since each person differs be it in what tasks they often perform at a computer or what they consider aesthetically pleasing.

Infin8Cyn · Post by **Infin8Cyn** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:58 pm

Nanosphere,
Your points are well taken, but even in apples and oranges, there are comparisons that can be made. I.E. Which utilizes ram better, HD Space, efficency, etc. The list goes on and on. I've tried to (and I feel I have) prove the mac as the weaker of the computing species

Exported PDFs use little or no compression that I've ever seen; in fact, many PDFs are significantly larger than the original document, even without included binaries. Crack one open in Notepad and check out the text that makes up the document. The format is openly specified by Adobe; if you wanted to, you could hand-write a PDF in Notepad.

There are options for compression in the PDF Format, and if used correctly reduce the file size some, but agreed. Due to the design of the PDF format, it's large. However, with the changes in PDF formats, and the adding of options to their acrobat package, Adobe has made it tough to do said editing on a PDF. Especially a Password-protected one.

I believe (and billf can correct me on this one if necessary) that applications for professional use get certified by various companies (like PANTONE) that they match the proper output. These applications often run on more than one platform and produce identical output

This is true.

better graphics acceleration in the OS"
NOT hardware specific, windows still doesn't use graphics acceleration for it's GDI, MACOS does.

Has anyone else seen the LongHorn movies? The things it can do with it's GDI is insane. Make all windows spin and bounce while still being completely usable, and utilizing no more than 2-3% of the CPU, on a mediocre-average video card at best. LongHorn is looking like it may have some drastic changes to the Windows OS as we geeks know it.

billf · Post by **billf** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:24 pm

[quote="Martin Blank";p="182674"]I believe (and billf can correct me on this one if necessary) that applications for professional use get certified by various companies (like PANTONE) that they match the proper output. These applications often run on more than one platform and produce identical output.[/quote]

True, although I have seen some cases where it doesn't always work the way it should

Post by **Mae Dean** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:33 pm

Has anyone else seen the LongHorn movies?

Me want linky.

EvilElf · Post by **EvilElf** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:59 pm

[quote="Greg Dean";p="182762"]

Has anyone else seen the LongHorn movies?

Me want linky.

[/quote]

Me too. >.>

Post by **Martin Blank** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:17 pm

Longhorn movie

Nanosphere · Post by **Nanosphere** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:21 pm

Here's something I managed to scrounge up though not videos.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/

Infin8Cyn · Post by **Infin8Cyn** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:49 pm

I don't know where the video went, I'm on my laptop, but lets see... I know Paul's site had stills of it... [searches]

You can see that with it all spinnin' it's at 2or3 or maybe 7, I can't quite read the number...

Others shots found here

Note the size of the hands compared to the Gargantuan monitor....
ME WANTEY!

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