Greg looks a lil bit like Eminem......

[Mista]

[quote="cripeman";p="198862"]
I'm stating right now that I respect your opinion. However...

Rap doesnt *require* talent... but you gotta know how to rhyme to a beat. That could take some skill. I mean, if it didn't take any skill, then there would be a heckuva lotta rappers out there.

Pop (depending on what your definition of pop is) does require talent. You gotta know how to sing. If you can't sing... then you're gonna suck. I didn't watch all that Americann Idol (or Canadian Idol) stuff but everyone's probably heard of how brutal they were with judging. It sounded like they had some really high standards. If pop (or any kind of music) didn't have high standards (or any standards for that matter) then yes, it doesn't require any musical talent. But since it does...

Punk probably requires more talent than pop or rap, imo. Most often than not, nowadays. You gotta know how to sing AND play an instrument. Of course, you really gotta define what you mean by "Punk", because Punk 10-15 years ago is not the same as "Punk" now. (Taking for example, the "Punk look". The "punk look" was mohawk and all that weird stuff. The "Punk look" now is most commonly baggy shorts, tshirt/tshirt with overshirt/ sweatshirt with hoodie and sneakers or sk8r shoes (as far as I know) ). As for the punk music. I have no idea what was considered punk music 10-15 years ago, but I do know that it's probably not like it is now. We got music from bands like Sum41, Weezer, White Stripes (imo), Gob, Treble Charger, Unwritten Law (i think...), and such... especially Weezer. I mean, if you've listened to the music that they can make, and think that that doesn't require any musical talent, let me ask you this:
Can you sing a few songs (maybe a few albums worth) and play an instrument (well) infront of thousands of people?
If they could, and they've sold thousands and thousands of records, they gotta have musical talent to be that popular... don't you think so?[/quote]

Well after re-reading what I said, I think I was in a bad mood at the time, I probably wouldn't have said it so harshly. I know that punk used to be good, but I'm saying the punk stuff that's out there now is stale, repetitive, and not that entertaining to anyone that can play an instrument. I've been playing music for 5 or so years, and lately I've been playing guitar for about a year and a half, and I must say punk music is the easiest music there is.

Now, the thing that I hate about punk is that they don't do anything drastically different to everyone else. If you listen to Led Zepplin, they play the same stuff as punk rockers do today, the thing thats different is all their songs don't sound alike. If you listen to their first CD and then listen to their second, they sound so different, but it still sounds like Led Zepplin. Even on just one CD, all their songs are different, but have that same Zepplin style.

My sister is really into punk, so I hear punk CD's all the time. All that new crap, and it all sounds the same, no one has their own sound.

If you've ever heard Red Hot Chili Peppers, they have their own sound, even though their music now is drastically different then it was in the 80's and 90's.

Oh, I listen to 60's and 70's rock, blues, jazz, and some real good shredders (Steve Vai, and Joe Satriani)

[cripeman]

[quote="Morsious";p="199141"]
Rap is just Rhyming and cursing. I give it no respect.
I make no claim that I can do any of the above, except I can play some instraments, But I don't pretend I am making music when I curse until I'm blue in the face.[/quote]
Rap is just rhyming and cursing? ^o) Have you heard Linkin Park? They don't swear (well, ok.. there was about TWO songs where they did swear... but those are "unreleased" singles) but they still rhyme and rap. Are you saying that as a generalization? Because (as goes with just about anything) not everything is the same. There are always some uniques.

[quote="Mista";p="199659"]
Well after re-reading what I said, I think I was in a bad mood at the time, I probably wouldn't have said it so harshly. I know that punk used to be good, but I'm saying the punk stuff that's out there now is stale, repetitive, and not that entertaining to anyone that can play an instrument. I've been playing music for 5 or so years, and lately I've been playing guitar for about a year and a half, and I must say punk music is the easiest music there is.

Now, the thing that I hate about punk is that they don't do anything drastically different to everyone else. If you listen to Led Zepplin, they play the same stuff as punk rockers do today, the thing thats different is all their songs don't sound alike. If you listen to their first CD and then listen to their second, they sound so different, but it still sounds like Led Zepplin. Even on just one CD, all their songs are different, but have that same Zepplin style.

My sister is really into punk, so I hear punk CD's all the time. All that new crap, and it all sounds the same, no one has their own sound.

If you've ever heard Red Hot Chili Peppers, they have their own sound, even though their music now is drastically different then it was in the 80's and 90's.

Oh, I listen to 60's and 70's rock, blues, jazz, and some real good shredders (Steve Vai, and Joe Satriani)[/quote]

"not that entertaining to anyone that can play an instrument"
Hrm... well I don't know about that part. I mean, I can play two instruments (classical, but meh.) for about... the last 13 years and I still think it (punk) sounds good. Of course, though. It also really depends on how old you are. No offense or anything. But I'd have to admit the influences are pretty uh.. influential ( ) at my age. Always being bombarded at school, and outside by the media and such. We get affected by today's mainstream stuff. Whereas yes, you (meaning people not in school) are bombarded too, but not as much (imo). The point of saying all that is that it really depends on what kind of music you like, too... and on what kind of music you think sucks like ****.

What do you think about Weezer? I think that they sound pretty different compared to the rest. I mean, I guess I can see what you mean by saying that they sound the same, but Weezer seems to stick out. They're different.

Yeah, actualy rhcp is my #1 favourite band and I would agree with you on that one... they do have their own sound. That's probably why I like them. I think they had slightly different styles between now and the 80's because they were going through a few phases (i.e. the native american phase) but I think that they've pretty much settled down at this point... or at least until they find another kind of music that they can blend with.

<thought>Why do I get the feeling that this should go into another forum?</thought>

[Mista]

Well first of all, I'm 16, I'm in high school. And yes, this has gotten way off topic, but who cares?

Anyway, all that punk stuff is "bombarded" on me, everywhere I look at my high school it's either punk rockers, or rappers. It's disgusting. I mean I don't care if they like punk, but I mean, thats all they listen to. They're not as bad as people who listen to rap. Me and some friends we're talking about Jimi Hendrix, and how Jimmy Page could tottaly kick his ass at basketball, when these 3 black dudes walk up (don't call me racist, I'm just stating the facts) They asked what we was talking about, and I said "rock" They preceded to make fun of us, saying we should listen to rap because all rock is is just jumping up and down, and screaming.

Really pissed me off. But anyway, yes I have listened to Weezer, and I've actually enjoyed one or two of their songs, but I didn't find anything of theirs to be really memorable. Have you ever listened to Led Zepplin? Jimi Hendrix? Deep Purple? They're a couple of good bands that have a punk/rock sound, but don't sound anything alike.

[AuroraMystic]

We've been over this in a previous thread. Greg looks like the guy who plays the older brother on Boy Meet's World.

[Mista]

Are you trying to bring us back on topic?

[Kits]

We've been over this in a previous thread. Greg looks like the guy who plays the older brother on Boy Meet's World.
_________________

YES! That's it! I would have never noticed that until you said something.

[cripeman]

[quote="Mista";p="201178"]Well first of all, I'm 16, I'm in high school. And yes, this has gotten way off topic, but who cares?

Anyway, all that punk stuff is "bombarded" on me, everywhere I look at my high school it's either punk rockers, or rappers. It's disgusting. I mean I don't care if they like punk, but I mean, thats all they listen to. They're not as bad as people who listen to rap. Me and some friends we're talking about Jimi Hendrix, and how Jimmy Page could tottaly kick his ass at basketball, when these 3 black dudes walk up (don't call me racist, I'm just stating the facts) They asked what we was talking about, and I said "rock" They preceded to make fun of us, saying we should listen to rap because all rock is is just jumping up and down, and screaming.

Really pissed me off. But anyway, yes I have listened to Weezer, and I've actually enjoyed one or two of their songs, but I didn't find anything of theirs to be really memorable. Have you ever listened to Led Zepplin? Jimi Hendrix? Deep Purple? They're a couple of good bands that have a punk/rock sound, but don't sound anything alike.[/quote]

Wow... you have a really... segregated.. school (music-wise). At my school.. yeah, we have the "i only like this"-groups.. but we also have tons of the "i like this and this and this and this and this..."-groups; purk rockers, hard rockers, rappers (actually.. not many of those), jappop singers, canpop singers, classical-lovers, you name a genre, we got a group for it... of course, we also have everything in-between

I've listened to Hendrix... not much, I might add, but some. He's good... he does sound different... yeah... I've only heard like.. 2 of his songs though. Led Zepplin... I'm told they're really good... but I still have yet to listen to a few. Deep Purple... the name sounds familiar.. but I can't say that I've heard any of their songs.

What do you think of Tool? NIN? Marilyn Manson? KoRn? Nirvana? Tom Jones?
...just kidding about Tom Jones
do you think they sound the same? or different? I'm not too sure as to what kind of genre they fit into anymore... because hard rock/alternative is kinda starting to sound a bit like Marilyn and NIN... I know it used to fit in with "heavy metal" (according to some people) but (some) heavy metal 10 years ago sounded like our hard rock today... (even some of the stuff my friend makes).

Which brings me to an interesting question: do you think that what was considered "loud" and "heavy" is considered as "average" today?
i.e. have you ever heard of a band called Pugnacious? Around 1997 they were extremely popular in Alberta, Canada. I listened to a tape of theirs around that time and thought it sounded horrible and loud... basically: noise (that was when I was into classical... plus, I was 12 years old). A few months ago, I found the tape lying around and listened to it. It sounded like something much milder than say... Disturbed.

Hey, whatcha doin? Trying to get us back on topic? Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

[Nekra]

there is good punk and there is bad punk, unfortuently i have yet to hear any good punk.

when i think of rapping i do get a mental image of Linkin "kiddie rock" Park and people like enimem, i have no respect for these people singing, though i will give some respect to the latter, i used to be a steward and once did one of his concerts, stood just in front of the stage i was able to watch the crowds response to his show. he was good in that regard. i dont know how many people have seen 8th mile, but if you ever get the chance watch the making of it, the rap battles take a lot of skill and talent in my opinion.

before someone says i'm defenidng him because its my sort of music, i'm not, i hate rap, i'm a mosher, my bands being System of a down, Drowning pool, and recently Rhapsody.


Greg does seem to have a resemblence to the older brother from Boy meets world....

[Lizzegirle]

I was just stating my opinion. My opinion was that he was wrong and that he/she should have a nice day! Thats all. I'm allowed to have an opinion also. =0)

Wait! Why is this in my forum anyways? hehe

[I like pie]

no genre sucks imo

i decide if I like a song based on the song itself, not because it falls into any categories that somebody else created for it

rappers have just as much talent as singers, it's just a different type of talent. most rappers probably couldn't hold a note. most singers probably couldn't recite words at that rate and keep a consistant beat

singing is more melodic
rapping is more rythmic

anybody who says "rapping requires no talent except for rhyming and cursing" is musically immature in my opinion

[RadishMan]

Well then I'll take my CD player and go home!

[Mista]

[quote="I like pie";p="203588"]
singing is more melodic
rapping is more rythmic

anybody who says "rapping requires no talent except for rhyming and cursing" is musically immature in my opinion[/quote]

Musically immature? Ok most people are born with rythem, so it isn't really talent, your just born with it. And rapping is just rhyming and cursing. Singing is hardly melodic, if you research it. Most singers have to have the music adjusted to fit their voice, since they can only sing in certain keys. Even in these keys, they can only sing certain notes, and only while those notes are being played in chords that underline the song. It doesn't take a musician to hum along in tune with a song, which is basically what a singer does. If you see a singer who sounds good solo, it's because they don't have to match anyone else. So basically what you hear is out of key, you just can't tell it, because they aren't playing with anyone else.

[I like pie]

Rapping is just rhyming and cursing. Singing is just holding out a word for longer than it's naturally spoken.

I'd say both of those have about the same amount of truth to them.

I'd also like to point out that rapping is rhyming yes, but not by definition cursing. There are plenty of rap songs out there without swears in them, you're judging an entire genre by a portion of that genre.

People born with rhythm? Some are, some aren't. Some people can't keep a beat no matter how hard they try, and others can. Just like some people have the ability to hit intended notes, as opposed to those who are tone-deaf.

Singing is hardly melodic? You described singers having to have the music adjusted to their voice, but that doesn't make what they do any less of a melody.

So basically what you hear is out of key, you just can't tell it, because they aren't playing with anyone else.

Being in key requires something to be compared to something else. If there's nothing else playing with it, then it's impossible for it to be out of key.

If I play a few notes my guitar, say C - C# - D#, it's out of key if I'm playing to A minor pentatonic, but by itself it's not out of key at all. It's the same with singers who aren't singing to a specific key, the notes they sing are fine relative to eachother.

Singing IS melodic, if not you'd have alot of monotone songs.

Rapping is far more than rhyming and cursing. If it wasn't, you'd have many more platinum selling artists than you do now.

I say it again, rapping requires just as much talent as singing, it's just a different kind of talent.

[Mista]

Umm what I was saying is if they are singing a song without someone backing them up, most likely they are out of key with the the key that the song was intended to be in. And, if you have ever heard a singer sing by themselves, a lot of times they will not stay in the same key. Umm compare a melody to any jazz song. A good example is Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. This guy takes a chromatic scale and turns a melody out of it. A singer holds out chord tones. That is why I say singing is hardly melodic.

The only part that requires talent in rap is the words. Most of the lyrics to rap songs that are out now are pretty shitty, and they aren't improv either, which makes it even more shitty. I think the good, skilled rappers are the ones that just go up on stage and improv their shit. That is talent, but only underground rappers really do this.

Oh and umm, C isn't out of key of an A minor pentatonic scale...Not only that, but if your playing to an A minor pentatonic, depending on what note you are playing, and what note is going on at the same time in the scale, you won't be out of key...
Oh and, just to rub it in some more, if you play D# with the scale, or an A-minor chord, it won't sound bad. It's technically in key. If you don't belive me, hum the Pink Panther tune in your head. One of the notes in it is this kind of note. A sharpend 5th (#5th) It gives it a bluesy like quality. Listen to any blues song and you will likely hear this note since it is refered to as a "blue" note. Yes, I study theory way to much...

[I like pie]

if they are singing a song without someone backing them up, most likely they are out of key with the the key that the song was intended to be in.

i was talking about singers who write their own songs, not those who sing the work of others, so they'd be singing in the key the song was intended to be in because they're the ones who created the song... which conveniently enough brings up the point that rappers write their own songs, as opposed to a large majority of singers who belt out hits written by somebody else. in that sense, rappers as a whole are much more talented than some singers. Not all, but a good majority, especially pop singers.

Most of the lyrics to rap songs that are out now are pretty shitty

This is something i've never understood about anti-rap people. You talk so much about how shitty the music is, and how talentless the artists are, and then you turn around and call judgement on the lyrics like you've heard every rap album out there.

Tell me, if you dislike rap so much, how on earth would you know what "most of the lyrics to rap songs" are? That would require that you listen to rap enough to get a feel for the wide variety of rap artists out there, as opposed to just forming a shit opinion by what you happen to hear on MTV.

And while we're on the topic of lyrics, what makes a song that depicts reality worse than say "pour some sugar on me"? I'm not saying rap lyrics are better than rock or pop lyrics, just that they all have their share of meaningless songs as well as their share of deeply written pieces of art.

they aren't improv either, which makes it even more shitty

So you judge the quality of lyrics on whether or not they were written or improvised? I don't see why, seeing as how improv rap is less likely to contain an actual solid meaning when compared to a rap song that was written with an idea in mind.

Oh and, just to rub it in some more

there's nothing to be rubbed in, i wasn't talked about C - C# - D# as seperate notes being individually out of key to A minor pentatonic, but rather in succesion as a whole being out of key. I know that C and D# fit, but C C# D# in that order does not fit with the scale, while C C# D# in that order by itself sounds perfectly fine.