What's the deal with Anti-Nintendo Knights?

[Tagrineth]

[quote="dmpotter";p="226204"](And, yes, the PC version is a port, not the other way around. They had to use some rather fancy trickery to pull off PS2 graphics effects in a DirectX based graphics engine.)[/quote]

First of all, that's a load of crap. PS2 doesn't do *ANYTHING* fancy at all in its rasteriser - hell, the Graphics Synthesizer supports so many blend modes, you can count them on one hand... Converting a PS2 engine to PC is only a matter of performance, as PS2 doesn't do much but it does it comparatively fast (15-odd million polys per second, and around 2.4Megapixels per second).

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but the GameCube uses DVDs too. In fact, the GameCube uses standard 80mm DVD media for their games. I think there's some "magic" in the way it's written to make it incompatible with a standard DVD-ROM drive, but to the best of my understanding that's firmware based - the hardware is the same as standard DVD hardware. Maybe someone can correct me.

The data is formatted differently, and the TOC is halfway across the disc rather than being at the front.

You don't want to see how messy the GCN systems used to rip the GOD's (Gamecube Optical Disc) are.

A PC is much more versatile and powerful, has a very good game selection to choose from, and I think mouse/keyboard combination is the best game controller ever built. When there is so much that's good about a PC, and so many flaws in the consoles, why even bother playing around with them?

I'd like to see you beat, say, Mega Man X2 on a keyboard. Seriously.

And there are tons of flaws in PC's, too - OS inefficiencies, variable hardware configurations (breaks compatibility easily), viruses... whereas consoles only have one true flaw: They can't be upgraded.

Man, ain't that the truth. I absolutely detested the N64 controller and merely tolerate the GameCube controller. (In that, it's better than the N64 controller.) Ranking the consoles by controller, it's gotta be PlayStation 2 > X-Box > GameCube. The X-Box controller feels a little awkward to me (although I haven't really done too much X-Box playing). The GameCube controller is just weird. But I like the PS2 controller. The only thing I might change is the double-shoulder button stuff, but that's already been done and it's not too hard to adjust to.

TBH, I've never understood why some people hate N64's controller so much. I remember, the one time I got a serious answer from someone, it was something along the lines of - "You ever tried playing Hexen on that thing?!", to which I replied, "Well, I'd give you that one, except Hexen's controls are awkward even on the best controller ever created (Sega Saturn's analogue pad)."

The PS2 controller SUCKS, it's so pathetically generic, and whoever designed that split crosspad needs to be shot. NOW. Playing Guilty Gear X2 on an original Sony pad gave my left thumb blisters. >_> Having four shoulder buttons is the ONLY good thing about DualShock.

And the only thing weird about GCN's controller design is the huge 'A' button, which is addressed in my rant above.

I'm actually arguing with someone over something similar right now, though it's actually why the GCN can't succeed because they don't make enough adult games, and that people are too old for them. It pisses me off so much... I quote, "Regardless of whether they're fun or not!".

Well, you could make the argument that the relative lack of adult-oriented titles will draw RETARDED NON-GAMERS away from buying it, and make them choose one of the other two - hence why GCN can't succeed (only the intelligent few who understand what 'quality' really is - not saying only GCN has quality games, just saying that only intelligent people would look past GCN's lack of adult-oriented titles). PS2's success arguably comes from the masses of morons (tm) who bought the system just because it's "cool", not because they play video games.

Gamecube is a big fat farking cash-sink for Nintendo, who have admitted that their main focus is on Gameboy. Deal.

So? GCN is still a great console, with great hardware, and some very great games.

[Calus]

I'd like to see you beat, say, Mega Man X2 on a keyboard. Seriously.

Done it.

And there are tons of flaws in PC's, too - OS inefficiencies, variable hardware configurations (breaks compatibility easily), viruses... whereas consoles only have one true flaw: They can't be upgraded.

I have never been hit with the blue screen of death, nor have I ever been hit with a viruses. But to be fair I have had my motherboard die on me.

[Mista]

Calus, your saying that of all the games you played on PC, not once you haven't had a problem? Either you have an incredibly stable system, or you don't play many games.

I agree there are good games on Gamecube, but PS2 has a huge selection, and many are good games. I think the system that the "masses of morons" is the X-Box, because it only really has one good game Halo, and nothing much else that is really worth buying it.

The PS2 was the "cool thing to buy" because it was worth the money. I haven't found anything wrong with it yet, and I bought it a month or so after it came out.

[Amanalphion]

I beat Megaman X 4 with a keyboard.

Personally, I love all three systems. I probably use my GCN the most, because of Zelda, Metroid, and all of the other amazing first-party exclusives. I also love the PS2 because of all the great RPGs - .hack, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy, Disgaea, etc. XBox is the place to go for all of your FPS needs, and Xbox LIVE is such a great setup that I am quite surprised Sony and Nintendo aren't copying it already. I don't actually own an XBox, but I've played on those owned by friends and relatives quite extensively, so I do know what I'm talking about. I seriously need some Halo action, so I'm saving up to buy an Xbox... Probably some time early next year.

As far as controllers go, I really prefer the GCN controller for everything except fighting games (and even Soul Calibur II is fine on the GCN pad, as far as I'm concerned). Sure, the shoulder buttons are a bit awkward, but the whole thing is wonderfully shaped to fit in your hand perfectly. Great for platformers and adventure games. Oh, and the wavebird = best accessory ever. The original Xbox controller sucks, as I'm sure everyone agrees, but I really like the controller S. Both sticks and the D-pad are quite accessable, and the buttons are much more comfortable than those of the original one. The triggers just serve to make the Box even more excellent for FPSs. I don't like the Dual Shock 2 as much as the other two, (the stalks seem a bit too short, and it feels awkward to reach down and use the two sticks) but it's great for fighting and sports games.

As for hardware capabilities, the only one I find to be a bit lacking is the PS2. Sure, it can play DVDs, but most people these days have a separate DVD player anyway. If I'm going to blow lots of money on a system, I don't really want to pay for a function I don't even need. Plus, the PS2's graphics are pretty crappy compared with the other two consoles. Be that as it may, the PS2 is still a great system. XBox is the most technically impressive, what with HD and built-in broadband and such (and the graphics are excellent). The only drawback is the thing's size and weight. Can anyone say "forklift"? The GCN may not have many nifty hardware features, but the thing is nice and compact, and it looks cool too (especially the black version, which I own). Lack of online support may bother some people, but my only income is a $20 monthly allowance, and some money that I recieve for my birthday or christmas, so I can't afford to pay the monthly subscription fees for online titles anyway. Thus I must remain FFXI-less for quite some time...

I don't really like the PC very much for gaming, but perhaps that's because mine is too old to play the newest games, and I can't afford a new one for a while. In general though, I find the keyboard and mouse inadequate for anything but strategy and FPS games. I would hate to play Mario Sunshine or Gran Turismo 3 on the PC, wouldn't you? The other problem with the PC is that you have to upgrade every year or so, and then there's always problem with getting your computer to recognize your new graphics card, finding a joystick that works, hoping the whole thing won't freeze, hang, or crash... Plus, most people have monitor screens that are quite a bit smaller than their TVs. The PC is cool, but personally, I prefer consoles.

In closing, I state four truths:

1). All three systems have their advantages and disadvantages. Hating any one of them is rather stupid.
2). Not everyone who prefers one system to another is a fanboy.
3). These so called "Anti-nintendo-knights" are rather stupid, but they are free to state their own opinions. If they choose to miss out on all of the great GCN games, it's their decision.
4). Not every game with colors and animals instead of blood and swears is unfit for adults. Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon are rated "E for everyone", not "K for kiddie".

[Calus]

The EA's Nascar games beat Gran Turismo series anyday in the Realism department and they are only on the PC.

You upgrade after you get behind 3 generations on something, and even then its not always so. You must not have much know how to install components if you get problems ever time you try to install a video card.

And on the monitor thing you want to be about a foot away, not 10 feet.

[Shyknight]

[quote="Tagrineth";p="226384"]I'd like to see you beat, say, Mega Man X2 on a keyboard. Seriously.[/quote]

i HAVE.

[BillyBlaze]

What bugs me about Nintendo is that all the games I want to see on the GC are being developed for the GBA.

EDIT: With the exception of the new Harvest Moon.

[dmpotter]

[quote="Tagrineth";p="226384"]First of all, that's a load of crap. PS2 doesn't do *ANYTHING* fancy at all in its rasteriser - hell, the Graphics Synthesizer supports so many blend modes, you can count them on one hand...[/quote]
Yeah, but DirectX has 0 "blend modes" like the PS2 blend modes you're referring to. So there's a "background" layer and an "overlay" layer in FFXI for the PC. The "background" layer's resolution is set separately from the "overlay" resolution because the "background" layer is really a texture that is drawn on to emulate these blend modes. BTW, for those who don't know, the "overlay" resolution is the actual screen size and the "background" resolution is the resolution used for the texture being rendered to where your character is. If they're different, then the background is scaled to match.

The data is formatted differently, and the TOC is halfway across the disc rather than being at the front.

Not relevant to my point - it's standard DVD hardware. The firmware is different, but that's it.

I'd like to see you beat, say, Mega Man X2 on a keyboard. Seriously.

I have. Saved Zero too. (And please indicate who you're quoting. You switched there, and then immediately switch back...)

TBH, I've never understood why some people hate N64's controller so much.

The thing hurt my hands! You're hands are held at different angles and the analog stick nearly gave me a blister. All this when playing Super Smash Brothers for five minute stretches... Basically, it hurt my hands! Plus you can't use several of the controls (D-pad, L) if you're using others (analog stick, Z).

The PS2 controller SUCKS, it's so pathetically generic, and whoever designed that split crosspad needs to be shot.

Umm... that's the entire point. A gamepad should be as generic as possible so that as many games as possible can be played on it. And you can shoot Nintendo for the split D-pad - they patented their design so the split design is one way around it. (Others include the large circle Logitech uses.) Not that it really matters now, since almost every game uses the analog stick. (And I don't really remember ever not using the Dual Shock controller, so I can't complain too much about the D-Pad.)

Edit: fixed a typo.

[BillyBlaze]

I guess I'm just special but in my Smash Brothers prime I could go for 2 hours in a 1 on 1 deathmatch without hurting my hands.
Maybe not all people need to play in 5 minute bursts potter.

[dmpotter]

[quote="BillyBlaze";p="226667"]Maybe not all people need to play in 5 minute bursts potter. [/quote]
I dunno, maybe it was just the game. I made it all the way through Zelda: Ocarina of Time and played enough of Majora's Mask to decide I didn't want to finish it. But the entire time I was cursing the controller because I had to have my hands at an awkward angle to each other. It's not natural. (Maybe you don't move as much in Zelda, because my thumb would hurt after playing Smash Brothers, but not Zelda.)

Of course, there were plenty of other things that sucked about the N64, so the controller may have been receiving some of that suckage (Like the lack of memory, both in the system and the game cart, and Nintendo's pissing off both Capcom and Square.)

[BillyBlaze]

Like how the N64 had 4 controller ports while Sony still feels compelled to only allow 2 people to play at a time on the PS2?

[Megatron4MonkeyX]

cool factoid: the gamecube control was once one of those crappy ripoff "speciality" N64 controllers which was made a bit slimmer and painted purple.

true story.

[Salvation122]

[quote="Tagrineth";p="226384"]First of all, that's a load of crap. PS2 doesn't do *ANYTHING* fancy at all in its rasteriser - hell, the Graphics Synthesizer supports so many blend modes, you can count them on one hand... Converting a PS2 engine to PC is only a matter of performance, as PS2 doesn't do much but it does it comparatively fast (15-odd million polys per second, and around 2.4Megapixels per second).[/quote]
Actually, it's a matter of rewriting most of the graphics code from scratch, since PS2 is a totally different architecture.

And there are tons of flaws in PC's, too - OS inefficiencies, variable hardware configurations (breaks compatibility easily), viruses... whereas consoles only have one true flaw: They can't be upgraded.

And their games are static. This is changing slowly, but it will be a /long/ time before you see the same kind of player-development community that's been with the PC since Doom. Hell, if I load up Quake, I can get more levels and mods than I could /ever/ play. Once I beat Tony Hawk, it's going to be the same thing. Always. Every time.

TBH, I've never understood why some people hate N64's controller so much.

Because it is designed so that half the buttons are unavailible at any given time, which is just stupid.

The PS2 controller SUCKS, it's so pathetically generic, and whoever designed that split crosspad needs to be shot.

Agreed.

And the only thing weird about GCN's controller design is the huge 'A' button, which is addressed in my rant above.

No, the weird thing is that the buttons are not located in any logical position. People love the dual-shock because it's basically an SNES controller with joysticks and an extra row of shoulder buttons; they hate the GC controller because it's frigging weird. I shouldn't have to "get used to" a controller; I should be able to pick it up and play.

Well, you could make the argument that the relative lack of adult-oriented titles will draw RETARDED NON-GAMERS away from buying it, and make them choose one of the other two - hence why GCN can't succeed (only the intelligent few who understand what 'quality' really is - not saying only GCN has quality games, just saying that only intelligent people would look past GCN's lack of adult-oriented titles). PS2's success arguably comes from the masses of morons (tm) who bought the system just because it's "cool", not because they play video games.

...yeah, there's really no point in debating this with you, because you're not going to be rational about it. The simple harsh reality is that most GC games do not appeal even to hardcore gamers like myself. I have played the big games availible for the Cube, and they're simply not worth plunking down the cash for. I mean, hell, you can get them for eighty bucks at Wal-Mart now, and I still don't think it's worth it. I'm sorry, but Nintendo's exclusives don't cut it for me.

So? GCN is still a great console, with great hardware, and some very great games.

GCN is an anemic console with decent hardware that's a bitch to program for, a small audience (even in Japan,) a marketing campaign that made it impossible to take seriously at launch and is non-existant now, virtually no third-party developers, and a suprisingly small amount of support from its own company. It relies solely on Nintendo fanboys like yourself to surive. It's dead, Jim.

[TheDuke]

[quote="dmpotter";p="226654"][quote="Tagrineth";p="226384"]First of all, that's a load of crap. PS2 doesn't do *ANYTHING* fancy at all in its rasteriser - hell, the Graphics Synthesizer supports so many blend modes, you can count them on one hand...[/quote]
Yeah, but DirectX has 0 "blend modes" like the PS2 blend modes you're referring to. So there's a "background" layer and an "overlay" layer in FFXI for the PC. The "background" layer's resolution is set separately from the "overlay" resolution because the "background" layer is really a texture that is drawn on to emulate these blend modes. BTW, for those who don't know, the "overlay" resolution is the actual screen size and the "background" resolution is the resolution used for the texture being rendered to where your character is. If they're different, then the background is scaled to match.

The data is formatted differently, and the TOC is halfway across the disc rather than being at the front.

Not relevant to my point - it's standard DVD hardware. The firmware is different, but that's it.

I'd like to see you beat, say, Mega Man X2 on a keyboard. Seriously.

I have. Saved Zero too. (And please indicate who you're quoting. You switched there, and then immediately switch back...)

TBH, I've never understood why some people hate N64's controller so much.

The thing hurt my hands! You're hands are held at different angles and the analog stick nearly gave me a blister. All this when playing Super Smash Brothers for five minute stretches... Basically, it hurt my hands! Plus you can't use several of the controls (D-pad, L) if you're using others (analog stick, Z).

The PS2 controller SUCKS, it's so pathetically generic, and whoever designed that split crosspad needs to be shot.

Umm... that's the entire point. A gamepad should be as generic as possible so that as many games as possible can be played on it. And you can shoot Nintendo for the split D-pad - they patented their design so the split design is one way around it. (Others include the large circle Logitech uses.) Not that it really matters now, since almost every game uses the analog stick. (And I don't really remember ever not using the Dual Shock controller, so I can't complain too much about the D-Pad.)

Edit: fixed a typo.[/quote]

Wasn't the Dreamcast's D-pad awfully similar to Nintendo's design?

Also, do I have Nintendo to blame for the DC's D-pad sucking?

[Dragonmaster Zoc]

The Dreamcast's D-pad was raised like half an inch above the surface of the controller, such that it ceased to resemble four directions and looked more like a hospital from Sim City.