What's the deal with Anti-Nintendo Knights?

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:52 am

I do not understand complaints about the DC controller. IT WAS THE BEST CONTROLLER IN THE WORLD. Period. Nothing else came close. The big X-Box controller is nice, too, though I have difficulty with it now that I'm used to the small ones that came with my system.

Dragonmaster Zoc · Post by **Dragonmaster Zoc** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:54 am

Did you just ignore my criticism of the raised D-pad? Had the controller used flat buttons rather than one elevated button, I would have to agree with you.

TheDuke · Post by **TheDuke** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:05 am

Everything on the DC had a very natural feel to it, the D-pad and joystick were in the perfect place, four face buttons, and two triggers, real triggers made for a beautiful, yet simplistic design. The VMU screen was fantastic, and was a generation ahead of it's time. more controllers need built in screens.

The great thing about the Dreamcast's controller design, unlike every other controller of it's generation was the ability to have your fingers and thumbs, literally, everywhere at once. Two triggers, four face buttons, and either a joystick or a D pad, everything was there, and you didn't have to move your fingers, or reach for ANYTHING. (well, except maybe the start button) while on other controllers you do. Look at the X-box, with it's black and white buttons, the PS2 with it's dual joysticks and four shoulder buttons, or the Gamecube, with the same dual joysticks, and three shoulder buttons, this is of course ignoring all it's other flaws.

BillyBlaze · Post by **BillyBlaze** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:18 am

When I saw that my XBox came with one of those tiny S-Type controllers I had to go out and buy a normal one. So far the majority of controllers are all about par. They get the job done without screwing anything up or having any horrendous flaws. The N64 controlelrs wear out faster than any controller I've ever seen ( Though I'm the one wearing them down. Too much Smash Brothers and Zelda.) but that's about it. And as far as the best layout goes, I have to give that award to the PS1/2 controller. Unlike the XBox it's a one size fits all. Unlike the DC or N64 it's got two analog sticks. It's got two L and R buttons. And it doesn't look like it's been put through a blender with a box of crayons. (unlike the Game Cube.)

Dragonmaster Zoc · Post by **Dragonmaster Zoc** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:21 am

I've actually worn through a couple of Dual Shock 2's; the pressure-sensitive buttons don't work well with Street Fighter.

BillyBlaze · Post by **BillyBlaze** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:05 am

Yes, that's my one problem with the dual shocks on the PS2. And I too have worn though my share of Dual Shock controllers as well. But the reason why the N64 needs special mentioning is that me and my siblings have worn through 2 PS1 controller for the several some odd years we had it, but 3 N64 controllers in about half the time. The flaw isn't the controller, it's the games. The PS1 games we have are mostly RPGs, not much in the way of button mashing or throwing the controller in frustration. (It would have been never, but Road Rash 3D got the better of me when I was having a bad day.)

The N64's games I own are mostly arcade oriented and button mashing galore ( Mario Party, Smash Brothers, Zelda: OOT.) So in any given using session the N64 is going to take a much bigger beating than a PS controller.

TheDuke · Post by **TheDuke** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:43 am

[quote="BillyBlaze";p="226727"]Unlike the DC or N64 it's got two analog sticks.[/quote]

Jesus, do you know how goddamn USELESS the right stick is?

BillyBlaze · Post by **BillyBlaze** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:14 pm

It's pretty damned useless. Especially with Ape Escape. Or any racing game. And btw, the XBox controller has two analog sticks as well. Try playing Halo with one analog stick and see how far you get.

Mista · Post by **Mista** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:47 pm

Yeah umm have you ever played Red Faction? Quake 3? Half-Life? They all use the Dual Shock's 2 sticks.

Oh and on N64's controller. It's made so that if your playing a 3-D game, you can crab the middle and the right side. If your playing 2-D you can hold the left and right side. Even if you could reach all the buttons, you wouldn't really need to since no game requires you to. What about PC? On a key board you can only reach so many keys. Especially when using the mouse in conjuction. Your arguement is pointless. Who cares if you can only reach two buttons? If you only need two buttons, then all other buttons are rendered obsolete anyway. Of course thats the problem with the X-Box. The White and Black buttons are way to far up there...

Tagrineth · Post by **Tagrineth** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:37 pm

[quote="Salvation122";p="226716"]...yeah, there's really no point in debating this with you, because you're not going to be rational about it. The simple harsh reality is that most GC games do not appeal even to hardcore gamers like myself. I have played the big games availible for the Cube, and they're simply not worth plunking down the cash for. I mean, hell, you can get them for eighty bucks at Wal-Mart now, and I still don't think it's worth it. I'm sorry, but Nintendo's exclusives don't cut it for me. [/quote]

Um... ok? So please explain to me how more PS2's have been sold this gen than the combined sales of last gen's entire roster of consoles? Did that many HARDCORE GAMERS appear out of thin air?

Most PS2 owners also only have a handful of sports games and that's it. That's the kind of gamer I was talking about ( 'Masses of morons' ). Oh, they might also have Grand Theft Auto III and/or VC.

GCN is an anemic console with decent hardware that's a bitch to program for, a small audience (even in Japan,) a marketing campaign that made it impossible to take seriously at launch and is non-existant now, virtually no third-party developers, and a suprisingly small amount of support from its own company. It relies solely on Nintendo fanboys like yourself to surive. It's dead, Jim.

The hell? A bitch to program for? I know several developers who will contradict that in a split second.

Virtually no third-party developers? I don't know about your area, but at my local Toys-R-Us and Best Buy, the GCN game racks are just as large as Xbox's.

Just like you say there's no way you could argue because I won't be rational, I can say the same thing about your horrifyingly biased arguments (like GCN being a bitch to code? The system was DESIGNED to be easy to programme!)

I do not understand complaints about the DC controller. IT WAS THE BEST CONTROLLER IN THE WORLD. Period. Nothing else came close. The big X-Box controller is nice, too, though I have difficulty with it now that I'm used to the small ones that came with my system.

The DC's controller is huge while having next to nothing ON it. The crosspad is too low and feels more like a cross-shaped stick than an actual pad. The stick has little to no 'grip'. The face buttons feel very stiff and it's hard to roll across them - since they're small, tall, and spaced way too far apart. And the VMU pack is WAY TOO BIG... I'm about used to it now, but at first it was either cramp up my fingers by curling them between the fins and VMU pack, or have a really bad grip on the thing by having my fingers flat across the back of the pad. Then we have the really, really silly design 'feature' of the cord coming out of the BOTTOM of the pad - wtf? And, while this isn't a problem with the pad itself, WHY did Sega remove the C and Z buttons that were on the Saturn's analogue? The only good things about DC's pad design are its relative simplicity and the pretty good quality triggers.

Which leads us to the best pad ever, the Saturn's analogue pad =)

BillyBlaze wrote:The N64's games I own are mostly arcade oriented and button mashing galore ( Mario Party, Smash Brothers, Zelda: OOT.) So in any given using session the N64 is going to take a much bigger beating than a PS controller.

You consider OoT an arcade-oriented / button-mashing game? O.o

TheDuke wrote:Jesus, do you know how goddamn USELESS the right stick is?

Ever played a console FPS game?

And finally, wrt the N64's controller - there is at least one game which uses the whole pad, to some extent - StarCraft 64... and it works fine. The crosspad and L button are used to assign/use map hotkeys, and I don't have a problem using them.

BillyBlaze · Post by **BillyBlaze** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:31 pm

Compared to a game like Final Fantasy Tactics and other turn based RPG's I do. The biggest beating my PS comtrollers ever take are from the boosts in FF8, and that only on the square button.

Mista · Post by **Mista** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:42 pm

What the hell is wrong with you guys? I've had my N64 since the year it came out and I got two controllers with it. They're still working fine now. And it's not like I don't play it or anything. I still sit down and play it even though I have my ps2 and gamecube and pc.

I've never broken a controller. I mean I have strong hands (I play lots of guitar) but I don't think I'll ever crush a controller or break it to peices. In fact, I still have a ps1 controller that I use as a second controller for my PS2.

And why the hell to people throw their controllers when they're mad? Anger Manegment people, thats what you all need.

RadicalDreamer · Post by **RadicalDreamer** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:42 pm

I kinda liked the N64's contoller. You could play Goldeneye with just one hand!

Dragonmaster Zoc · Post by **Dragonmaster Zoc** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:13 pm

I used two hands to play Goldeneye (two controller style- still the best way to play any FPS).

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:24 pm

[quote="Tagrineth";p="226860"]Um... ok? So please explain to me how more PS2's have been sold this gen than the combined sales of last gen's entire roster of consoles? Did that many HARDCORE GAMERS appear out of thin air?[/quote]
You obviously missed my point, which was that if it did not appeal to the hardcore gamers, it would certainly not appeal to the "masses of morons."

Most PS2 owners also only have a handful of sports games and that's it. That's the kind of gamer I was talking about ( 'Masses of morons' ). Oh, they might also have Grand Theft Auto III and/or VC.

So what? They didn't buy it because they thought it was "cool;" they bought it because they wanted to play a handful of sports games and GTA. There's absolutly nothing wrong with that, and it makes them no different than any other casual gamer.

The hell? A bitch to program for? I know several developers who will contradict that in a split second.

Name, quote, publication. Everything I've read has said that of the three, the X-Box is the easiest to program for, because DirectX does a whole lot of it for you.

Virtually no third-party developers? I don't know about your area, but at my local Toys-R-Us and Best Buy, the GCN game racks are just as large as Xbox's.

Third-party developers means "people writing code that aren't Nintendo." They have precious few of those. (And, actually, in my area, X-Box easily gets twice as much shelf space as Cube, and the PS2 has much more than the X-Box. I cite Target, Wal-Mart, and EBX.)

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